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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Abraxas" data-source="post: 1566089" data-attributes="member: 1266">I think the -20 penalty is a hefty enough situational modifier (the only thing harder than nearly impossible is impossible <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> )With HiPS I would allow the SD to Hide from the guy she's grappling. All its going to do is introduce a 50% miss chance on any attacks (but not on grappling checks) launched at the SD and give the SD a +2 bonus to attacks launched at the victim. Grappling automatically causes the loss of DEX bonus to AC (for both characters) and the victim can pinpoint the location of the SD (he's holding on to her) which takes away a big benefit of being able to hide in plain sight. The thing that has changed is that in 3.0 you couldn't hide at all while attacking . . .From the 3.0 PHB, pg 69 "Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. At more than one-half and up to your full speed, you suffer a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while running or charging."  The option to Hide while attacking didn't exist so it makes sense that the 3.0 FAQ wouldn't reference anything but HiPS while moving.The addition of attacking to the nearly impossible actions to undertake while hiding makes the 3.0 FAQ answer meaningless except in demonstrating that HiPS does not require a Standard Action to use in and of itself. I agree that an opposed check with the -20 penalty should be made with each attack during a full attack action.  I would allow the SD to attempt another opposed check after losing one during the full attack action - but it wouldn't help her unless she had another attack to follow the rehiding (is this even a word??? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> ) attempt. SD moves up to target - target blows spot check. SD begins full attack routine (for grins lets say she has 3 attacks/round) SD makes 1st attack - because she was hidden it is a sneak attack - an opposed check is made (at -20) - SD loses. SD makes 2nd attack - it is not a sneak attack - she attempts to rehide and an opposed check is made (at -20) - SD wins SD Makes 3rd attack - because she has successfully rehidden it is a sneak attack - an opposed check is made (at -20) Continue till target or SD is dead. Sniping was introduced in Song & Silence - under 3.0 Hiding while attacking wasn't allowed.  They created a mechanic to allow a ranged attack (not even a ranged sneak attack) in S&S.  All the new uses for the Hide skill in S&S appear to revolve around moving out from cover/concealment and then moving back in to it before the victim notices.  As such it would require a move action and thus only 1 attack would be allowed.  They appear to have cut and pasted and then replaced attack with sneak attack. I would allow a full round of sneak attacks from cover (with opposed checks after every attack) but not concealment - because concealment prevents sneak attacks.  I would also allow the hider to make a full round of normal attacks from concealment (again with opposed checks after every attack) but they would not be sneak attacks and they would have a % miss chance based on the amount of concealment. I have played in a campaign where one of the PCs was a rogue/shadow dancer - allowing the above to work didn't make him too powerful.  With all the things he couldn't sneak attack, his relatively low HPs and AC, all the things with blindsight or tremorsense or scent, and all the things with access to the blindsight spell plus the enemy rogues with phenomenal Spot checks - it only allowed him to shine once in a while.  In only one instance (from levels 8 when he became an SD through 14 - when the campaign ended with a near TPK - the SD survived because of a phenomenal reflex save and evasion not because of HiPS) did the SD drop a BBEG with a full round of sneak attacks.  But that was us <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> </blockquote>

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