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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1394404" data-attributes="member: 994">Well, I'm glad you know what they were thinking. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Seriously, those are assumptions and ones I happen to partially disagree with. The game is built for and around humanoids whose best senses are 1) Vision and 2) Hearing, with the former much more important for the vast majority of people. It's the way we work, it's the way we think and it's the way we interpret what's going on in the world around us. That directly translates from us playing the game to our PCs all the time! How many times have you asked (or heard) "Okay, so I open the door. What do I smell?" (hehe, let's take a poll, that could be funny! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />)So of the senses, Vision and Hearing (and foiling them) get the biggest chunk of rules text. If we were only allowed to play or interact with Humanoids like ourselves that's probably all the rules we'd need. Unfortunately, the game incorporates other senses for other creatures, and most importantly, for many of those creatures they have different primary senses!Take the Bat with Blindsight. Know what I serendipitously learned today? That the real-life common fruit bat can "sense" an insect from as much as 18 feet away! And gets enough information at that distance to determine whether it's likely something he'd like to eat! Wow! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> So what about Scent? And Blindsight? And Tremorsense? Are they "automatic"? Yes, within certain conditions.Yes, within certain conditions. For instance, no one can Hide from you if you can see them (which is why Darkvision foils someone trying to Hide using shadow concealment) but they can still Hide behind cover. And you automatically "see" anything within your visual range, given ambient light and obstacles limiting line-of-sight. What doesn't work automatically is something that is difficult to see, and the roll determines whether your brain recognizes what your eyes have told you. If a PC carrying a torch is in a large cavern he can "automatically" see everything within a 20' radius. No check is necessary.Actually yes, you do automatically hear anything within certain frequencies that reaches your ears. Whether you recognize it or understand its significance is another question entirely (and IMO, that's partially what the check represents).So back to that Bat. The Bat's primary sense is his Blindsight (though he does have poor Vision). The Bat can "automatically" sense anything within a 20' radius (with a lot of caveats in the rules). Why should the Bat be treated any different than the PC with a torch in a large cavern using Vision? If you're going to give him a bonus based on his best sense and add it to a roll based on one of his worst, it'd better be a damn good bonus!WRT Scent being automatic, again, it's dependent upon a lot of conditions, but within a certain radius it's as automatic as Vision, Hearing & Blindsight. However, I'd actually argue it does take a Move Action to pinpoint once you're within 5' of the source. Why? Because the rules say it's a Move Action to determine direction. Whether you're 5' away or 30' away, you still have to determine direction, so it takes a Move Action. Here's the RAW:So is this too powerful? Not to me, but I know YMMV. How close do you think you could get to a bear if he was blind and deaf (so he could just use his sense of smell)? 10'? 30'? 60'? What if it was a dog? A wolf? A snake?Do they "automatically" know something is within 30' of them according to the rules? Yes, unless the scent is masked.How do they respond? Well, depends on the smell, and because of this text:It also depends on whether they've encountered it (or something like it)before.Summary:To me, the abilities are well and sensibly defined in the Core rules. However, the DM is the final arbiter of what the prevailing in-game conditions are and that can have drastic effects on whether they work or they don't. And even when they work the DM has a lot of control over what information is actually passed on to PCs.If you are going to go ahead with a roll of some kind I hope it would only be used when the situation is clearly ambiguous whether the ability would work or not, and I'd actually prefer it be the better of their Listen and Spot bonuses, with an appropriate racial bonus (of +4 or +8, typically) to the roll.On a slight tangent, as I said in the other thread, I'd like to use a single Awareness or Perception skill in my next campaign.Well, Blindsight by definition doesn't care about the ambient light, but dealing with varying abilities between senses can be taken care of with appropriate modifiers to the roll just like we use now modifying each individual sense.Can you make a Spot check in the dark with Normal or Low-light vision? No, but you can make a Listen check. Under the new system I'd probably institute a flat penalty (-2? -4?) for creatures denied their Primary Sense and making a check, but it would require a bit of tinkering, I agree.Thanks.DrSpunj</blockquote>

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