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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nail" data-source="post: 1426965" data-attributes="member: 224">I've done some more thinking on this subject.  Rusty gears turning, an' all o' that.It seems that there are two things in play here: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do you know what "square" a creature is in? (smell, hearing, tremorsense, blindsense, etc)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Can you "see" what the creature is doing in that square? (vision, darkvision, blindsight)</li> </ul>What if we had 2 skills, and 2 subsequent conditions: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sense: If you can sense the subject, you know what grid square its in, but it may/may not have full concealment (and 50% miss chance).  Example: a guard dog successfully senses the invisible rogue, and so knows where the rogue is, but still suffers all the penalties from invisibility. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spot: If you can "see" the subject, no full concealment (but perhaps partial, with 20% miss chance).  Example: A dragon successfully Spots an invisible, hiding rogue, and so suffers no penalties from the invisibility (or hiding!).</li> </ul>"Seeing" or sight allows you to know what the subject is doing, retain your dex bonus to AC, etc."Sensing" (by smell, hearing, etc) allows you to know exactly where the subject is, but not what it's doing.  So you might lose your Dex bonus to AC, you might have a 50% or 20% miss chance, etc., depending on concealment.  The Listen skill would be subsumed by this new skill, and various creatures would gain racial bonuses, because of excellent senses of smell, hearing, tremorsense, etc.  Those creatures might have additional notes like: "The creature may use it's racial bonus to Sense on its Search checks while tracking opponents, because of its excellent sense of smell." When a "surprise" situation develops, a creature may use only one of the two skills to determine surprise.  When trying to guard an area, a creature may use both....just as Listen and Spot are used presently.The new idea here is separating "Knowing where you are" from "Knowing where you are, and what you're doing"............it's not a fully fleshed out idea, but it's a start.  Any thoughts?</blockquote>

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