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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1429281" data-attributes="member: 994">Well, I said Action Skills should get verbs. Awareness, as you've defined it and I'm imagining it, is both passive and active. In its active mode it becomes closer to try and say "I Perceive...", which is why others (myself included) have offered up Perception instead of Awareness (it's used in Werewolf). In its passive mode, Awareness translates into something closer to "You Notice...". Either way, you're right, the above statement doesn't fit. Touche´! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Okay, since we've made a fair bit of progress on this, here's an attempt to sum up:Spot is now used for any Visual sense as well as those abilities that give enough detail to perceive everything your opponent is doing "as if" you could see them. To my knowledge only Blindsight fits this description.Awareness now encompasses every other way you could potentially sense something, including but not limited to Hearing, Scent, Blindsense, Tremorsense...anything else? With one successful check you get the precise direction you noticed something. If your quarry doesn't move, you both make a second check to potentially uncover the exact square. (I'm advocating a bonus on the second Awareness roll since you know kind of where they are.)Both get a -1 per 10' circumstance modifier. If either skill could be used in an opposed roll the creature can choose which one to use and gets a bonus from the other one.Now, the biggest part of what's left is being specific about bonuses and whatnot. How much of a bonus if both Spot & Awareness can be used? How much of a bonus if a creature could use Awareness twice (like a Bat's Listen and Blindsense)?Nifft originally proposed a +4 for each sense beyond the first that could be brought to bear. I remember at the time thinking +4 seemed a bit much, but I'm not so sure it is after more consideration. Under Core that same Bat would've gotten both a Listen check & a Spot check and would've automatically determined anything within 20'. Since we're keeping two skills in this proposal (Spot & Awareness instead of Spot & Listen) Animals aren't picking up any "extra" skill points, and they're losing their "automaticness", though they are benefiting IMO from an extended range on their special senses.All in all I think I'm happy with a flat +4 across the board. To break it down, a Bat could:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Under Core make a Spot check, a Listen check and automatically sense anything within 20', or</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Under this proposal make a single skill check, either Spot or Awareness, with a +4 for the other one, a +4 because Listen & Blindsense are both involved, but with a -1 per 10' distance penalty</li> </ul>Thoughts?DrSpunj</blockquote>

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