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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6503057" data-attributes="member: 82106">The original D&D saving throw was EXACTLY that, a last ditch chance to avoid some terrible fate which had just befallen your character. You foolishly decided to open the chest and you set off the trap. By rights you're dead at that point, however, Mr Gygax is a sport, he pulls out this little chart and says "If you can roll 14+ on your d20 I'll give you back your character sheet!" Its as simple as that, just a sporting chance to get back into the game without needing to go back to level 1 and start another character. It was never intended to 'mean' anything or have any specific logic. Presumably even Gary put some narrative to the results of making a save "OK, you managed to hold your breath long enough to get clear of the cloud of poison gas!" or whatever, but it wasn't a mechanic that rested on some sort of specific game logic. The mention of the scratch in the poison section is simply an example of such narrative, and one which ironically shows just how malleable Gygaxian hit points were.And yes, its true, FORT in 3e was entirely different and it set the stage for 4e's move to defenses. Nor does 5e have a classical notion of saves either, they are just defenses reverted to a confusing defender rolls mechanic. Part of 3e's problem is that it removed the modest Gygaxian plot armor of the save-as-second-chance but didn't put anything in its place. Where in say 1e a high level PC is not so much subject to insta-gank because of high saves in 3e high level play is the opposite, if you get to the save part you're already toast. 4e (and to a large degree 5e as well) put alternative forms of plot armor in place so the job that was classically done by saves is now in 4e done pretty much by hit points, hence the "only die at negative bloodied or 3 death save fails" rules (and here of course we see the only vestigial survival of the old save in 4e, the death save).</blockquote>

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