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<blockquote data-quote="kerleth" data-source="post: 6031787" data-attributes="member: 84383"><p>Libramarian: My argument isn't that it is logical that the troll gets worse stuff as the party levels. I apologize for being unclear. Let me try to put it another way. Pretend you are seeing the world through a character's eyes. Why is it expected that every troll has similar loot? Wouldn't it be more logical to assume that one eats bears and has almost no treasure while another ambushed a poorly guarded caravan and took the shiny stuff back to their cave? And you will probably never know the history of random monster you slaughter. My argument is that the circumstances surrounding how any given monster got it's loot are going to be different from the circumstances of any other monster. So why SHOULD they give out similar levels of treasure? The random tables are "invisible", like an algorithm that controls treasure drops in a video game. They are simply a risk vs reward management system. Finally, my "mimicking" comment was a reference to how that method would end up very similar to "loot by monster level" in that case. My response to Lost Soul may clarify further.</p><p> </p><p>Lost Soul: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are talking about a hypothetical sandbox situation where the characters tried to find out rumors about good loot, correct? In that case, judge the encounter difficulty by what level they are when they go asking around. The campaign world isn't a set piece, it changes as time goes on. If the players slay the goblins, then perhaps the dragon is slain by someone else, or gives the magic sword to a trusted servant, etc. OR you just let it keep the sword. When the pc's go after it later, they'll be getting better treasure, but that would closely simulate a "higher level monsters give better treasure" style chart. OR you just make the dragon tougher. They haven't tangled with it, so they don't know how tough it really is yet. All they heard were rumors about it's power. And if they know enough info about it that they can estimate it's power level ahead of time, then it could instead have allies which they weren't aware of.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>All: I think part of the reason we aren't seeing any sort of "treasure by monster level" chart is because of people railing against expected wealth by level. Instead they are using a method very divorced from this to give those people what they asked for. In the end, it is a tool to assist the dm. If you don't want them to have a belt of storm giant strength at 1st level, don't give it to them. If you like the randomness of less tightly controlled "expected wealth" then go with it. I'm not saying that the tables are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm saying that we are looking at them from the "programmer" point of view rather than the "player" point of view and may be getting a false impression.</p><p> </p><p>P.S. I would like to apologize if any of my posts were offensive or condescending. I can be like a dog with a bone sometimes, and don't always consider what my words may sound like to those on the other end.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kerleth, post: 6031787, member: 84383"] Libramarian: My argument isn't that it is logical that the troll gets worse stuff as the party levels. I apologize for being unclear. Let me try to put it another way. Pretend you are seeing the world through a character's eyes. Why is it expected that every troll has similar loot? Wouldn't it be more logical to assume that one eats bears and has almost no treasure while another ambushed a poorly guarded caravan and took the shiny stuff back to their cave? And you will probably never know the history of random monster you slaughter. My argument is that the circumstances surrounding how any given monster got it's loot are going to be different from the circumstances of any other monster. So why SHOULD they give out similar levels of treasure? The random tables are "invisible", like an algorithm that controls treasure drops in a video game. They are simply a risk vs reward management system. Finally, my "mimicking" comment was a reference to how that method would end up very similar to "loot by monster level" in that case. My response to Lost Soul may clarify further. Lost Soul: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are talking about a hypothetical sandbox situation where the characters tried to find out rumors about good loot, correct? In that case, judge the encounter difficulty by what level they are when they go asking around. The campaign world isn't a set piece, it changes as time goes on. If the players slay the goblins, then perhaps the dragon is slain by someone else, or gives the magic sword to a trusted servant, etc. OR you just let it keep the sword. When the pc's go after it later, they'll be getting better treasure, but that would closely simulate a "higher level monsters give better treasure" style chart. OR you just make the dragon tougher. They haven't tangled with it, so they don't know how tough it really is yet. All they heard were rumors about it's power. And if they know enough info about it that they can estimate it's power level ahead of time, then it could instead have allies which they weren't aware of. All: I think part of the reason we aren't seeing any sort of "treasure by monster level" chart is because of people railing against expected wealth by level. Instead they are using a method very divorced from this to give those people what they asked for. In the end, it is a tool to assist the dm. If you don't want them to have a belt of storm giant strength at 1st level, don't give it to them. If you like the randomness of less tightly controlled "expected wealth" then go with it. I'm not saying that the tables are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm saying that we are looking at them from the "programmer" point of view rather than the "player" point of view and may be getting a false impression. P.S. I would like to apologize if any of my posts were offensive or condescending. I can be like a dog with a bone sometimes, and don't always consider what my words may sound like to those on the other end. [/QUOTE]
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