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<blockquote data-quote="Amphytrion" data-source="post: 9492623" data-attributes="member: 7046181">I think that this is a constant debate because Chaotic and Lawful have changed definitions through editions, and the 5e wording can often be inadequate in retrospect. We often have to rely on our own judgment to resolve alignment, which makes things murky.For example, we know from the 2014 MMs that angels are all Lawful Good (this is explicitly stated in the text). Yet the Lawful Good definition is “creatures (that) can be counted on to do the right thing as expected by society.” This makes little sense: society’s values change, Lawful Good does not. As longtime players of this game, we know Lawful Good encompasses justice, honor, truth, equality and altruism, and WotC NPC alignment choices bear this out, but the text doesn’t say that.In the past, Chaotic had a close tie to individualism, so hedonistic characters were classified as Chaotic Evil. Malcanthet and Graz’zt, the most notable NPCs associated with incubi/succubi, both inhabit the Abyss and are Chaotic Evil. I think that the incubi/succubi being Neutral Evil is a rare case in which a 4e change has somewhat stuck (though not completely, since they’re not devils anymore either) in reflection of new alignment descriptions, but setting fiction hasn’t followed suit.Personally, I’m fine with Neutral Evil for them, it gives them space to act for either camp depending on the need of the adventure. Alignment discussion is mostly semantics anyway.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Amphytrion, post: 9492623, member: 7046181"] I think that this is a constant debate because Chaotic and Lawful have changed definitions through editions, and the 5e wording can often be inadequate in retrospect. We often have to rely on our own judgment to resolve alignment, which makes things murky. For example, we know from the 2014 MMs that angels are all Lawful Good (this is explicitly stated in the text). Yet the Lawful Good definition is “creatures (that) can be counted on to do the right thing as expected by society.” This makes little sense: society’s values change, Lawful Good does not. As longtime players of this game, we know Lawful Good encompasses justice, honor, truth, equality and altruism, and WotC NPC alignment choices bear this out, but the text doesn’t say that. In the past, Chaotic had a close tie to individualism, so hedonistic characters were classified as Chaotic Evil. Malcanthet and Graz’zt, the most notable NPCs associated with incubi/succubi, both inhabit the Abyss and are Chaotic Evil. I think that the incubi/succubi being Neutral Evil is a rare case in which a 4e change has somewhat stuck (though not completely, since they’re not devils anymore either) in reflection of new alignment descriptions, but setting fiction hasn’t followed suit. Personally, I’m fine with Neutral Evil for them, it gives them space to act for either camp depending on the need of the adventure. Alignment discussion is mostly semantics anyway. [/QUOTE]

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