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<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 3333237" data-attributes="member: 29014"><p>But that's not what this thread is about--Mistwell did ask to just discuss this build <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></p><p></p><p>In this case, I'd say the only problem (in my opinion) is the Arcane Thesis feat. Arcane Thesis is horribly broken in almost all cases where you would want to take it. Incantatrix is also possibly the strongest Wizard PrC around (plus many GMs don't allow the Player's Guide to Faerun in a typical game, as an FR supplement), but I allow the PrC in my game anyway. Arcane Thesis is the problem. Also, the guy on the WotC forums did not apply a "minimum +1" rule to the Arcane Thesis feat, which is technically okay by the letter of the rules, since the feat doesn't speak to it at all, but I'll note that other metamagic reductions do have a "minimum +1" rule (at least he didn't take Energy Substitution and try to make it cost -1 level, which some Arcane Thesis builds do, though).</p><p></p><p>Just because I'm curious, I'm going to try to see what this build would look like without Arcane Thesis (because even though it has some very powerful stuff, I don't think any of the things in this build except Arcane Thesis are actually broken--it's very focused, but other than that it's a perfectly fair build):</p><p></p><p>Lessee--he'll get another feat. I'm not sure what to take for him, though. Mistwell, if the WotC guy has a good suggestion for another feat, I'm willing to take it--I don't want my comparison build to be too weak because I wasn't imaginative enough. Without the other feat, though, the build seems much more reasonable--in fact, it's almost enough to prove that Arcane Thesis is broken by itself.</p><p></p><p>6th-level spells:</p><p></p><p>Twinned Scorching Ray + Quickened Scorching Ray (36d6) averages to 126, strongly resistable by fire resistance, but he can throw in Searing if he finds Fire Resistance--hey, maybe he could be a Sorcerer so he could do that on the fly? You suggested that, Mistwell, and I think that works--it even gets rid of the feat, since he won't have a bonus feat at 5. What if he had Maximize and Searing as an alternative to Twinned if he finds someone with Fire Resistance?</p><p></p><p>Lest you think I'm just picking on something random to call broken in the build, I promise that I am not. My main FtF campaign is a fairly high-powered game compared to most people here. I have Incantatrixes with Metamagic rods who fire off powerful meta-ed spells, and other such things. There aren't very many things that aren't in Complete Divine that I've banned from my game, but Arcane Thesis is on that short list. For the four original Completes plus core, it's a short list that includes nothing in Complete Warrior, things in Complete Divine like Divine Metamagic, Wraithstrike from Complete Adventurer (and I nerfed a few other things for preferences sake), and a nerf to the orbs in Complete Arcane (making them subject to SR--they make high level play less fun). From PHII, the only thing I can think of that I've banned is Arcane Thesis. Whatever books have the spells that basically eliminate SR, those are banned too, and there's a few more from other books.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 3333237, member: 29014"] But that's not what this thread is about--Mistwell did ask to just discuss this build :p :lol: In this case, I'd say the only problem (in my opinion) is the Arcane Thesis feat. Arcane Thesis is horribly broken in almost all cases where you would want to take it. Incantatrix is also possibly the strongest Wizard PrC around (plus many GMs don't allow the Player's Guide to Faerun in a typical game, as an FR supplement), but I allow the PrC in my game anyway. Arcane Thesis is the problem. Also, the guy on the WotC forums did not apply a "minimum +1" rule to the Arcane Thesis feat, which is technically okay by the letter of the rules, since the feat doesn't speak to it at all, but I'll note that other metamagic reductions do have a "minimum +1" rule (at least he didn't take Energy Substitution and try to make it cost -1 level, which some Arcane Thesis builds do, though). Just because I'm curious, I'm going to try to see what this build would look like without Arcane Thesis (because even though it has some very powerful stuff, I don't think any of the things in this build except Arcane Thesis are actually broken--it's very focused, but other than that it's a perfectly fair build): Lessee--he'll get another feat. I'm not sure what to take for him, though. Mistwell, if the WotC guy has a good suggestion for another feat, I'm willing to take it--I don't want my comparison build to be too weak because I wasn't imaginative enough. Without the other feat, though, the build seems much more reasonable--in fact, it's almost enough to prove that Arcane Thesis is broken by itself. 6th-level spells: Twinned Scorching Ray + Quickened Scorching Ray (36d6) averages to 126, strongly resistable by fire resistance, but he can throw in Searing if he finds Fire Resistance--hey, maybe he could be a Sorcerer so he could do that on the fly? You suggested that, Mistwell, and I think that works--it even gets rid of the feat, since he won't have a bonus feat at 5. What if he had Maximize and Searing as an alternative to Twinned if he finds someone with Fire Resistance? Lest you think I'm just picking on something random to call broken in the build, I promise that I am not. My main FtF campaign is a fairly high-powered game compared to most people here. I have Incantatrixes with Metamagic rods who fire off powerful meta-ed spells, and other such things. There aren't very many things that aren't in Complete Divine that I've banned from my game, but Arcane Thesis is on that short list. For the four original Completes plus core, it's a short list that includes nothing in Complete Warrior, things in Complete Divine like Divine Metamagic, Wraithstrike from Complete Adventurer (and I nerfed a few other things for preferences sake), and a nerf to the orbs in Complete Arcane (making them subject to SR--they make high level play less fun). From PHII, the only thing I can think of that I've banned is Arcane Thesis. Whatever books have the spells that basically eliminate SR, those are banned too, and there's a few more from other books. [/QUOTE]
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