Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Scott Thorne, a retailer, comments on recent events
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5448557" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>The only problem with this idea is that it meant WotC would be delving into the minutia/niche parts of the hobby that would probably not generate the sales numbers necessary to justify the expense of putting man-hours to it. The whole point of the OGL was so other companies could produce things like a book of ship-to-ship combat, or modules for a pirate campaign etc.</p><p></p><p>The problem WotC had with 3E, 3.5 (and now 4E) is that the products which sell <em>at the numbers they need</em> to justify the expense of producing them... is the baseline books. The first wave of PH, DMG, MM, and splatbooks for the classes in PH.</p><p></p><p>As soon as those are done, they are now on the downward slope towards running out of money-making material. Now WotC actually made a good decision in holding back the gnome, halforc, druid, barbarian, bard, and sorcerer... in that it actually <em>extended</em> their baseline products into the second series of books. So they got a second wave of fairly good sales. But once those three books PHII, DMG2, MMII were on the shelf... they again have run up against the wall.</p><p></p><p>PH3 and MM3 have run into diminishing returns. They've tried to replicate the sales boost of 3.5 without the stigma of 3.5 by releasing Essentials... but they've found that because those are basically glorified 'splatbooks' for the existing 4E player, they are not necessary purchases (not nearly to the same extent 3.5 was).</p><p></p><p>So what is left for them? There are no books remaining in 4E that would create the same sales numbers that they got two years ago... the same way there were no 3.5 books for them to release when they made the decision to create 4E. Because despite claims to contrary... I do not personally believe that 'adventure paths' or niche books do that for them. If they did... we'd have another three or four Hammerfast/Von Rukoth books on the schedule, we wouldn't have seen the Player's Options: Dragonborn and Tiefling books end after just those two, and a couple more hardcover adventure books like Revenge of the Giants and Tomb of Horrors would be scheduled.</p><p></p><p>Instead... what is really left for WotC? It's DDI. A monthly revenue stream that generates for them for the year the equivalent sales of <em>two hardcover books</em> for every person who subscribes to it. And what's most important is that they're getting this money from the people who they probably wouldn't get the equivalent money from had they just released a bunch of hardcover books. I subscribe to DDI... but I didn't buy PH3, nor will I buy Heroes of Shadow when that gets released. Monster Manual 3? Didn't buy it. Any of the Essentials? Didn't buy it. Champions of Sword and Spell? Wouldn't have bought it had it been released. Heck, even the products they still DO have on their schedule for the year I still don't intend to buy... because I am quite happy playing D&D using the dozen products I bought in the first two years of the game's lifecycle.</p><p></p><p>However, I will still continue to subscribe to DDI... because the tools I get from it are just so damn useful. So that's $70 they'll get from me that they otherwise would not. And the fact that they are following this tack of release gives a pretty good indication that there are probably many more people <em>like me</em>... than there are of people who would have bought at least three of the hardcover books they would have released this year had they not changed their publication decisions. A few of you probably are diehards who intended to buy every book... but I don't think there are enough of you to sustain the sales that WotC needs.</p><p></p><p>Print is not 'dead' per se... but I do think we are approaching the point where print is now 'niche'.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 5448557, member: 7006"] The only problem with this idea is that it meant WotC would be delving into the minutia/niche parts of the hobby that would probably not generate the sales numbers necessary to justify the expense of putting man-hours to it. The whole point of the OGL was so other companies could produce things like a book of ship-to-ship combat, or modules for a pirate campaign etc. The problem WotC had with 3E, 3.5 (and now 4E) is that the products which sell [I]at the numbers they need[/I] to justify the expense of producing them... is the baseline books. The first wave of PH, DMG, MM, and splatbooks for the classes in PH. As soon as those are done, they are now on the downward slope towards running out of money-making material. Now WotC actually made a good decision in holding back the gnome, halforc, druid, barbarian, bard, and sorcerer... in that it actually [I]extended[/I] their baseline products into the second series of books. So they got a second wave of fairly good sales. But once those three books PHII, DMG2, MMII were on the shelf... they again have run up against the wall. PH3 and MM3 have run into diminishing returns. They've tried to replicate the sales boost of 3.5 without the stigma of 3.5 by releasing Essentials... but they've found that because those are basically glorified 'splatbooks' for the existing 4E player, they are not necessary purchases (not nearly to the same extent 3.5 was). So what is left for them? There are no books remaining in 4E that would create the same sales numbers that they got two years ago... the same way there were no 3.5 books for them to release when they made the decision to create 4E. Because despite claims to contrary... I do not personally believe that 'adventure paths' or niche books do that for them. If they did... we'd have another three or four Hammerfast/Von Rukoth books on the schedule, we wouldn't have seen the Player's Options: Dragonborn and Tiefling books end after just those two, and a couple more hardcover adventure books like Revenge of the Giants and Tomb of Horrors would be scheduled. Instead... what is really left for WotC? It's DDI. A monthly revenue stream that generates for them for the year the equivalent sales of [I]two hardcover books[/I] for every person who subscribes to it. And what's most important is that they're getting this money from the people who they probably wouldn't get the equivalent money from had they just released a bunch of hardcover books. I subscribe to DDI... but I didn't buy PH3, nor will I buy Heroes of Shadow when that gets released. Monster Manual 3? Didn't buy it. Any of the Essentials? Didn't buy it. Champions of Sword and Spell? Wouldn't have bought it had it been released. Heck, even the products they still DO have on their schedule for the year I still don't intend to buy... because I am quite happy playing D&D using the dozen products I bought in the first two years of the game's lifecycle. However, I will still continue to subscribe to DDI... because the tools I get from it are just so damn useful. So that's $70 they'll get from me that they otherwise would not. And the fact that they are following this tack of release gives a pretty good indication that there are probably many more people [I]like me[/I]... than there are of people who would have bought at least three of the hardcover books they would have released this year had they not changed their publication decisions. A few of you probably are diehards who intended to buy every book... but I don't think there are enough of you to sustain the sales that WotC needs. Print is not 'dead' per se... but I do think we are approaching the point where print is now 'niche'. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Scott Thorne, a retailer, comments on recent events
Top