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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ainamacar" data-source="post: 5910512" data-attributes="member: 70709">Inspired by the recent <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120514" target="_blank">L&L article</a> about wizards, as well as the associated <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-horizons-upcoming-edition-d-d/323080-l-l-balancing-wizards-d-d.html" target="_blank">thread</a>, I've been wondering about the interaction between wizards, scrolls, and spellbooks, particularly as it involves learning new spells.  Besides the mechanics of casting spells (whether prepared, from scrolls, or otherwise) is the issue of learning spells, since a wizard's overall effectiveness is strongly influenced by its versatility.  Before 4e the high degree of campaign dependency could be highly immersive but also exacerbate balance issues, while in 4e the noticeable lack of campaign dependency in terms of learning spells definitely kept balance in check, but was also thematically frustrating for many.So I'm asking you, how would you prefer the wizard learn spells in 5e, and how would this relate (if at all) to scrolls, spellbooks, etc.?  I'd appreciate it if we could keep this a "big tent" thread rather than sparring about how problems others perceive aren't actually problems.My own initial inclination is to find a midway point between the 4e and pre-4e methods.  If 5e embraces improving spells by preparing them in a higher level slot I think something like the following might work:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Learned spells have a level cap, which is simply the highest level at which the caster can cast that spell.  For example, two 20th level casters might both know fireball, and both have 9th level spell slots.  However, one might only be able to cast fireball at up to 6th level, while the other could do so at up to 9th.  (This scheme could also be simplified to two states: "minimum level of the spell" and "maximum level spell slot you possess.")</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Limited character resource, perhaps "research points", are the common means for most casters to learn new spells and increase the level caps on spell they already know.  They represent the baseline capability of a wizard, ideally balanced against the "naked" versions of other classes to avoid making setting assumptions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Scrolls have both a spell and an associated level.  Almost always this will be the lowest level version of the spell in question (e.g. 3rd level fireball), but one can scribe a higher level version if desired.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Learning a spell from a scroll (which may require money and time but probably not character building resources) allows a character to prepare and cast the the spell up to that level.  It is essentially a research shortcut.  Afterwards the wizard must spend its character resources as normal when improving the spell.  So a scroll is still valuable treasure, but after that initial bump in versatility the caster doesn't automatically know its 9th level version (unless it's already a 9th level spell).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spellbooks and other resources might grant bonuses toward whatever spell research module is in the game, but by themselves don't grant spell knowledge.  I prefer for the value of the spellbook to be primarily personal rather than monetary.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Scrolls can cast the contained spell without an external power source, but only at the intrinsic level of the scroll.  A caster that has already mastered that particular spell to a higher level can alter the casting process to cast a higher level version of the spell. (Hopefully the best of both worlds when it comes to scrolls.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Scrolls should be priced in such a way that they are consistent both a means of transporting or facilitating research (i.e. the character resource), and as a library of emergency spells.  Specifics of the game's economy is a whole different discussion, of course.</li> </ul>In this system a character that finds a lot of scrolls will have a lot of versatility, but unless they invest limited resources they will not be able to automatically learn the higher-level versions of all these spells.  Even in a very high-magic world with lots of scrolls as treasure the character will have to make a choice between developing breadth and depth.  In a game where lower level spells are improved by preparing them in higher level slots this is also what prevents a lowly 1st-level scroll from being worth half the kingdom when it comes time to "copy" it into a spellbook.Furthermore, it neatly lets a wizard who scribes scrolls decide whether he wants to make a very powerful self-contained one (like the emergency 9th-level fireball that won't require a prepared slot) or a cheaper one he expects to cast by expending a prepared slot (basically a versatility stash.)  Even a very powerful caster can't just find a low-level scroll and expend a spell slot to get a powerful effect, so the only way to use a scroll above its intrinsic level is to already possess equivalent potential with the spell.Finally, I hope this would support making high-level scrolls a very rare piece of treasure, both as a matter of smart gameplay and within the fictional setting (even a high-magic one).  After all, upon finding a high-level scroll the most sensible thing for a wizard to do would be to copy it to his spellbook (thus expending the scroll) and then scribing a scroll using a lower-level version.  Thus, one should be much more likely to find the low-level versions of scrolls even on very high-level casters.  If nothing else this could help justify a robust price for high-level scrolls without going down the D&D economy rabbithole of what a caster "should have."</blockquote>

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