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<blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 5879178" data-attributes="member: 5038">I don't see the problems with search checksA search check is limited to searching a specific 5'x5' area not 5'x5'x5' area .&nbsp; So you need to search specific areas of floor, ceiling, walls (at least in 3e. I don't know if the same is for 3.5)If there is nothing there, it does not matter what you roll.If there is something in another area other than the 5'x5 searched, a successful search roll will not turn it up regardless of the roll.Successfully, finding something turns up something. However, there may other steps involved.&nbsp; It may turn up a secret door, but not the method to open it. For example,&nbsp; the DMG section on doors, specifically, mentions levers located elsewhere needing to me manipulated in a specific sequence. This can easily apply to pulling sconces or a specific book. Alternately, the search check might only turn up scratches or worn area around a bedpost cap or, recently, disturbed dust on a book case near a specific book again requiring a certain action on behalf of the character.Stating specific actions like searching the bookcase (rather than randomly taking 20) when there is a book that opens the secret&nbsp; door may get you a +2 bonus to notice disturbed dust&nbsp; or an out of place book if such a thing exists (see the DMs best friend in the DMG).&nbsp; Stating you are searching a specific shelf the&nbsp; might get you a bigger bonus to notice the dust or disturbed book or become automatic success (see DMs best friend) and save a lot of timeWhy use DCs that exceed the characters skill +20? Describing a certain required action might can bypass the need for a search roll regardless of the DC.&nbsp; If your secret door with the DC 35 check to find requires a specific action to open ( like pulling the sconce), it doesn't matter if the DC to find the door exceeds the ability of the character if a player states the character is performing the required action.&nbsp; For example, if sconce pulling opens the door, stating &quot;Helgor walks to the sconce and pulls on it&quot; automatically opens the door without requiring a roll.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greg K, post: 5879178, member: 5038"] I don't see the problems with search checks A search check is limited to searching a specific 5'x5' area not 5'x5'x5' area . So you need to search specific areas of floor, ceiling, walls (at least in 3e. I don't know if the same is for 3.5) If there is nothing there, it does not matter what you roll. If there is something in another area other than the 5'x5 searched, a successful search roll will not turn it up regardless of the roll. Successfully, finding something turns up something. However, there may other steps involved. It may turn up a secret door, but not the method to open it. For example, the DMG section on doors, specifically, mentions levers located elsewhere needing to me manipulated in a specific sequence. This can easily apply to pulling sconces or a specific book. Alternately, the search check might only turn up scratches or worn area around a bedpost cap or, recently, disturbed dust on a book case near a specific book again requiring a certain action on behalf of the character. Stating specific actions like searching the bookcase (rather than randomly taking 20) when there is a book that opens the secret door may get you a +2 bonus to notice disturbed dust or an out of place book if such a thing exists (see the DMs best friend in the DMG). Stating you are searching a specific shelf the might get you a bigger bonus to notice the dust or disturbed book or become automatic success (see DMs best friend) and save a lot of time Why use DCs that exceed the characters skill +20? Describing a certain required action might can bypass the need for a search roll regardless of the DC. If your secret door with the DC 35 check to find requires a specific action to open ( like pulling the sconce), it doesn't matter if the DC to find the door exceeds the ability of the character if a player states the character is performing the required action. For example, if sconce pulling opens the door, stating "Helgor walks to the sconce and pulls on it" automatically opens the door without requiring a roll. [/QUOTE]

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