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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pickaxe" data-source="post: 2824926" data-attributes="member: 10812">IME (which is probably less than that of most others), it's not a problem, especially as level increases. If you're actually dealing with an ambush situation with good ambush creatures, the Hide opposed rolls will be very high (especially if they had time to take 20). As long as the Hide rolls exceed 20, the chances are good that the 18+ Spot roll will be the character with no Spot ranks, rather than the devoted spotter. It always seems to me that my no-Spot sorcerer only spots things when he actually does get the really high roll, whereas the rogue with max ranks and various bonuses notices everything regardless of roll. In any case, you would expect that more people means more chances that something is noticed. Most of my games have 4-5 PCs, so the number of chances to spot/listen are more limited.Don't forget the increases to DC due to distance. If you don't want to measure out the distance for every character, I don't see a problem with applying a -2 circumstance penalty to the characters not at the front. This way, everyone still gets a roll.--Axe</blockquote>