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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Graf" data-source="post: 329834" data-attributes="member: 3087">You think the gods of evil are mean.... you should see their parents....unfortunately mmadsen beat me to the punch with this one. So I guess I get to expound on the point.This assumes: You want a harsh dangerous world but don't have the time to make it yourself.Take a regular world (FR is especially good for this). And then change it a little bit:The city of shade appeared above Waterdeep, conquored and enslaved it.  Baldur's gate's merchant lords have subverted the rest of the area. Efreet have returned to Calmishan. The red wizard's trading enclaves have enabled them to take over many smaller regions where they rule discreetly as puppet masters. Etc.The idea of Szass Tam using Elminster:s heart as a  ritual focus is probably almost as creepy as putting people into a real ravenloft game.Things seem much more gritty when the players think that they're finally getting somepalce safe only to discover  how bad things  really are.In general less divine magic (cures, etc) and more monsters the PCs can't hurt the more grim it gets. (Monsters that can only be hurt by the weird black magical dagger that slowly turns the PCs flesh blue, eyes yellow and gives her an uncontroable craving for brains is also good).You might want to be careful about this though:1. One of my PCs made his character's tag line "things are improving, everythings getting worse more slowly." And you start to hear a lot of 'jokes' about how many negative levels people are going to get today.... In otherwords abject unending horror leads to mutinous players.2. If you're following standard 3e experience rules then throwing PCs up against high CR monsters will tend to lead your party up to rather high levels quickly.  This can help offset the unhappy PC syndrome.If you're looking for a really good game setting with enough grit and grim to fill a ship there is always SL. NF did a good job talking about how neat the world is but the one thing worth reiterating is that the vast majority of Scarn is a pretty tough place to be.I use it myself and the players complain all the time about how hard it is. The best was when they tried to sell some magic items last session. "but the players handbook says its worth at least 8000 gold...""sure its probably worth a lot, but there ain't nobody around here gonna buy it. sorry 1000 pentacles. take it or leave it."They'd been carrying around that magical silver tipped spear for a month....</blockquote>

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