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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyaricus" data-source="post: 2828070" data-attributes="member: 35678">got it! [sblock]runtime10-23-05, 02:53 AMHere is a rough draft of a new class I've been developing. It's sort of a wild, supernatural burglar. I'm not sure whether this class would be most appropriate as a base class or prestige class..? Also, does this class seem unbalanced, possibly too gifted?chris-- B]Puma Burgular[/B]The Puma Burglars are a loose association of thieves. Most are brutish and street-smart. Though not as studied as some rogues, Puma Burglars are natural sneaks. At night, they crawl the city with animal-like instincts and almost supernatural stealth.Hit Die: d6RequirementsTo qualify to become a Puma Burglar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.Alignment: Any nonlawful.Feats: Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Balance, Climb, or Tumble).Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Knowledge (Architecture and engineering or Local) 4 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks.Class Skills:The Puma Burglar's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.Level Advancement Chart:Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Slow fall 20 ft.2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Trap sense +13 +2 +1 +3 +1 Low-light vision4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Hide in plain sight, trackless step5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Slow fall 40 ft.6 +4 +2 +5 +2 Trap sense +27 +5 +2 +5 +2 Blindsight8 +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Slow fall 60 ft.9 +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Trap sense +310 +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 DarkvisionClass FeaturesAll of the following are class features of the Puma Burglar.Weapon and Armor ProficiencyA Puma Burglar gains no additional proficiency in any weapon or armor.Slow Fall (Ex)A Puma Burglar within arm's reach of a wall can use it to slow her descent. When first using this ability, he takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. The Puma Burglar's ability to slow his fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with his Puma Burglar level until at 9th level he can use a nearby wall to slow his descent and fall any distance without harm.Trap Sense (Ex)Starting at 2nd level, a Puma Burglar gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 at 6th and 9th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.Low-Light Vision (Ex)At 3rd level, using his heightened sense, a Puma Burglar can see twice as far as a typical member of his race in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.Hide in Plain Sight (Su)At 4th level, a Puma Burglar can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.Trackless Step (Ex)At 4th level, a Puma Burglar leaves no trail in natural or urban surroundings and cannot be tracked. He may choose to leave a trail if so desired.Blindsight (Ex)At 7th level, a Puma Burglar gains blindsight. He can ascertain creatures by nonvisual means within 60 feet.Darkvision (Su)At 10th level, a Puma Burglar can see in the dark as though he were permanently under the effect of a Darkvision spell.--DragonTurtle10-23-05, 11:03 AMJust a couple of observations based on the flavor of the class, who if I understand are more supernatural than studied rogues.Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), probably not needed as a requirement, as it entails an awful lot of study.May want to add Knowledge (Nature) to skill list.I would switch trapfinding and evasion, evasion should almost never be a first level abiliity as it is too tempting to dip one level to get.Slowfall is cool and makes sense for the build. I would bump the skills back up some, the class is not too powerful as written, especially without sneak attack.Question on whether it is a coreclass or PrC is up to you and your campaign. I would say PrC but that is my opinion based on how specialized the role is. Core classes (usually not always) are meant to cover a number of archetypes. So the rogue core class can be a merchant, assassin, thief, pirate etc.. The Puma Burglar to me seems less likely to fill many roles other than the Puma Burglar.runtime10-23-05, 01:00 PMJust a couple of observations based on the flavor of the class, who if I understand are more supernatural than studied rogues.Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), probably not needed as a requirement, as it entails an awful lot of study.May want to add Knowledge (Nature) to skill list.I would switch trapfinding and evasion, evasion should almost never be a first level abiliity as it is too tempting to dip one level to get.Slowfall is cool and makes sense for the build. I would bump the skills back up some, the class is not too powerful as written, especially without sneak attack.Question on whether it is a coreclass or PrC is up to you and your campaign. I would say PrC but that is my opinion based on how specialized the role is. Core classes (usually not always) are meant to cover a number of archetypes. So the rogue core class can be a merchant, assassin, thief, pirate etc.. The Puma Burglar to me seems less likely to fill many roles other than the Puma Burglar.Thanks, your suggestions are very helpful. I agree that PrC might be most appropriate. I was torn trying to make the class not too rogue-ish or require rogue levels as a prerequisite. I was trying to imagine a PrC that might interest even barbarians or rangers who wanted to get a little rogue-ish.Nyaricus10-28-05, 12:36 AMThis is definitivly a tasty little PrC you have here, but i have a few comments . . .You probably want a Rogue/Ranger-type to take this PrC, if i am correct. It suits the build, to be sure. But i dunno, the focus seems a bit wrong (if i am getting it right in the first place). You have some awesome city-scape abilities, and then stuff like wild empathy and trackless step thrown in - which, with the abilities, doesnt really fit. For the class description (not to mention name) sure.My suggestion would be to ficus this as a feral, streetwise character. A slinky little weasel that has a nice bag of tricks. Wild Empathy should affect domesticated animals only, and if they have Wild Empathy from another class, they get a +2 bonus to those checks. Trackless step should work only in urban areas.I might be gettign this PrC all wrong, in which case, i apollogise. Just some of my own thoughts for focusing him a bit, but that may be incorrect in design. Do you want a city rogue that can run around and steal stuff, or do you want a outdoorsie character with some interesting abilities and methods of using them.runtime10-29-05, 04:07 PMThis is definitivly a tasty little PrC you have here, but i have a few comments . . .You probably want a Rogue/Ranger-type to take this PrC, if i am correct. It suits the build, to be sure. But i dunno, the focus seems a bit wrong (if i am getting it right in the first place). You have some awesome city-scape abilities, and then stuff like wild empathy and trackless step thrown in - which, with the abilities, doesnt really fit. For the class description (not to mention name) sure.My suggestion would be to ficus this as a feral, streetwise character. A slinky little weasel that has a nice bag of tricks. Wild Empathy should affect domesticated animals only, and if they have Wild Empathy from another class, they get a +2 bonus to those checks. Trackless step should work only in urban areas.I might be gettign this PrC all wrong, in which case, i apollogise. Just some of my own thoughts for focusing him a bit, but that may be incorrect in design. Do you want a city rogue that can run around and steal stuff, or do you want a outdoorsie character with some interesting abilities and methods of using them.Thanks for your feedback. You're right that the Puma Burglar is a bit bi-polar: is he wild or urban? You have some good suggestions about customizing the wild feats for urban use. "Domestic Empathy" special ability, anyone? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Nyaricus10-29-05, 11:57 PMThanks for your feedback. You're right that the Puma Burglar is a bit bi-polar: is he wild or urban? You have some good suggestions about customizing the wild feats for urban use. "Domestic Empathy" special ability, anyone? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Heh heh <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> But really, what is he?? I like this PrC, but i think he needs some focus. Any more info forthcoming??runtime10-30-05, 11:46 PMI just updated the class description. Your feedback has inspired me to pick up my Puma Burglar class again.Some unresolved design issues:- Do the prerequisite Feats and Skills seem appropriate and balanced?- Where in the level advancement would "Hide in plain sight" be appropriate?[/sblock]</blockquote>

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