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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 5522123" data-attributes="member: 22424">Indeed. That's how it worked in 3e.The problem is that although we know that the character isn't actually paused in freeze-frame, turns in 3e/4e are sufficiently long that it actually appears that the character 'hangs' in mid-air for several minutes while we go round the table.Although what you describe is actually the way the rules 'should' work, this is a case where the closer simulation actually detracts from the immersion that it is trying to generate.What you've described should work fine. But several years of actual experience have shown that it doesn't.No. In this instance, I'm stating that the rules are wrong.In one of the late-3e "Design & Development" columns, one of the designers talked about 'Proud Nails' - areas of an otherwise good system that just don't work like they should. I submit that the 4e rules for jumping are a very clear example of a Proud Nail in this system.At present:1) It is too hard to perform 'easy' real-world jumps, and simultaneously too easy to perform 'hard' real-world jumps2) Per RAW, it is possible to dramatically change direction in mid-jump, even with no surface on which to gain any traction3) There is no support for performing actions in mid-air (such as in basketball, the run-then-charge jump example, or the "I'll jump out and grab the dragon" example).(and possibly 4: there's an arbitrary restriction that you can't end your turn in mid-air)#1 can be fixed by adjusting the DCs (although I must confess I haven't yet come up with a good formula, and am reluctant to recommend a table-based solution). #2 can be fixed by simply adding a statement to the effect that "a long jump must be in a straight line, unless you have some support (a wall, pillar, creature, or similar) on which to redirect". #3 can be tackled, as I suggested in my last post, by simply adding a statement that you fall unless your next action does something to prevent it (and that if your next action also involves movement of any sort, you can combine the two into a single jump).(#4 is something we're pretty much stuck with, as the 4e is model is better than the 3e one. However, I did previously address one way to improve it - by allowing an Athletics check to exceed the fixed movement rate when running.)For the most part, 4e is a good system. But it does have some areas where it not only goes wrong, but it goes spectacularly wrong. Jumping is the single best example I have found. Now, sure, we can sweep all this under the carpet with, "it's just a game", but given that much of the nonsense can so easily be fixed, why not do just that? We may actually get an even better game as a result!(And, yes, in case it's not obvious: IMO.)</blockquote>

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