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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Secondary ability benefits - why the wizard inconsistency?
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<blockquote data-quote="Goumindong" data-source="post: 4372921" data-attributes="member: 70874"><p>I noticed this as well. But i am not sure of a way to rectify it. If you look at most of the other powers its control and debuff abilities that are modified by secondary stats [primarily, then damage). And the wizard just doesn't have a lot of stuff that can be easily modified. </p><p></p><p>As well, there is no weapon differentiation. Since a wizard can, realistically use an implement in each hand(with no loss of damage or other ability) and since he can achieve two specialties he could get a lot more mileage out of specialization specific spell benefits or implement specific spell benefits</p><p></p><p>E.G. If a fighter wants to benefit from axe and flail skills he needs to give up some amount of damage on high [W] powers even with two weapon fighting. One needs to be one hand/versatile and the other needs to be off hand. so it is losing 1-2 damage die per weapon over using a 2 handed weapon off the bat, and 1-2 damage die on the off hand if he picks up TWF.</p><p></p><p>If a wizard wanted to get the benefit from a wand implement power and an orb implement power and a staff implement power all he would need would be the implement. If he wanted to get the benefit from two different specializations on a power he would only need to take a feat.</p><p></p><p>But it can be done. </p><p></p><p>One thing i was really irked about when reading the class is that the encounter knockback powers are weaker than the at will in many instances.</p><p></p><p>Spectral Ram is a ranged 10 push 3+prone int vs fort. At that level Thunderwave is a blast 3 push 4 int vs fort. And is soon to become a ranged 2, blast 4 push 5. When I am looking at control powers there are three main things I am looking at.</p><p></p><p>1. How many enemies can I control with it. Since i can choose to not push friendlies any squares(or could use it to push them where they were more valuable, giving them OA free, action free moves in a single direction for the low low cost of 1d6+int dmg) the AoE factor of thunderwave is no big deal over the single target factor of spectral ram.</p><p></p><p>2. How much I can control. The prone is nice, but really i want to move enemies around into things like walls of fire or Evard's Censored Hentai Movie and so unless its something like daze, i don't much care what happens because they are going to get a face full of something unsavory on the start of their turn anyway.</p><p></p><p>Nearly explicitly because wizard push/pull powers are not tied to wisdom/orb mastery/whatever, most push/pull encounter powers are just plain worse than the at will push power.</p><p></p><p>So what is one way to do it? Well, the easiest way it to just change powers and give them some beneficial ability based on ability score. But that probably isn't balanced.</p><p></p><p>The second way to do it is to limit cantrips. Cantrips are flipping sweet and really amazing in nearly all situations. One of the strongest utility abilities of the wizard.</p><p></p><p>So what do we do? We limit cantrips</p><p></p><p>Everyone gets "Light". And then you choose between Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, and Prestidigitation. Ghost Sound is Con, Mage Hand is Wis, Prest is dex. </p><p></p><p>Ghost Sound can mimic sound from 1 creature per 1/2 con mod. Mage hand gains 5 pounds/point of wis. Prest gets a range of 2+dex.</p><p></p><p>Benefit to powers? Mage hand selected wizards get all push/pull powers to cue off of their wisdom. Prestidigitation selected wizards get most single target spells to gain 1+1/2 dex targets(or 1/2 dex targets) and on spells that grant +4 to the attack they gain that benefit so long as they attack fewer than 1/2 dex mod targets. Con wizards can sustain any ONE encounter area modification spell for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 their con modifier as a minor action.(E.G. am 18 con ghost sound wizard that cast Icy Terrain could sustain the difficult terrain for an extra round as a minor action)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Another option is to cue feat bonuses off of ability scores just as spell mastery does. Solid Sound could get a bonus for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 con mod, or a bonus equal to 1/2 con mod(or 2). Arcane Reach could give a reach equal to your dex mod or 1/2 dex mod. Resounding Thunder could give a bonus to push for all thunder powers equal to your wisdom. </p><p></p><p>And the final option is just to add damage to powers based on your specialization. So that thunder powers do +int+wis and cold powers do +int+con and fire powers do +int+dex.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Goumindong, post: 4372921, member: 70874"] I noticed this as well. But i am not sure of a way to rectify it. If you look at most of the other powers its control and debuff abilities that are modified by secondary stats [primarily, then damage). And the wizard just doesn't have a lot of stuff that can be easily modified. As well, there is no weapon differentiation. Since a wizard can, realistically use an implement in each hand(with no loss of damage or other ability) and since he can achieve two specialties he could get a lot more mileage out of specialization specific spell benefits or implement specific spell benefits E.G. If a fighter wants to benefit from axe and flail skills he needs to give up some amount of damage on high [W] powers even with two weapon fighting. One needs to be one hand/versatile and the other needs to be off hand. so it is losing 1-2 damage die per weapon over using a 2 handed weapon off the bat, and 1-2 damage die on the off hand if he picks up TWF. If a wizard wanted to get the benefit from a wand implement power and an orb implement power and a staff implement power all he would need would be the implement. If he wanted to get the benefit from two different specializations on a power he would only need to take a feat. But it can be done. One thing i was really irked about when reading the class is that the encounter knockback powers are weaker than the at will in many instances. Spectral Ram is a ranged 10 push 3+prone int vs fort. At that level Thunderwave is a blast 3 push 4 int vs fort. And is soon to become a ranged 2, blast 4 push 5. When I am looking at control powers there are three main things I am looking at. 1. How many enemies can I control with it. Since i can choose to not push friendlies any squares(or could use it to push them where they were more valuable, giving them OA free, action free moves in a single direction for the low low cost of 1d6+int dmg) the AoE factor of thunderwave is no big deal over the single target factor of spectral ram. 2. How much I can control. The prone is nice, but really i want to move enemies around into things like walls of fire or Evard's Censored Hentai Movie and so unless its something like daze, i don't much care what happens because they are going to get a face full of something unsavory on the start of their turn anyway. Nearly explicitly because wizard push/pull powers are not tied to wisdom/orb mastery/whatever, most push/pull encounter powers are just plain worse than the at will push power. So what is one way to do it? Well, the easiest way it to just change powers and give them some beneficial ability based on ability score. But that probably isn't balanced. The second way to do it is to limit cantrips. Cantrips are flipping sweet and really amazing in nearly all situations. One of the strongest utility abilities of the wizard. So what do we do? We limit cantrips Everyone gets "Light". And then you choose between Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, and Prestidigitation. Ghost Sound is Con, Mage Hand is Wis, Prest is dex. Ghost Sound can mimic sound from 1 creature per 1/2 con mod. Mage hand gains 5 pounds/point of wis. Prest gets a range of 2+dex. Benefit to powers? Mage hand selected wizards get all push/pull powers to cue off of their wisdom. Prestidigitation selected wizards get most single target spells to gain 1+1/2 dex targets(or 1/2 dex targets) and on spells that grant +4 to the attack they gain that benefit so long as they attack fewer than 1/2 dex mod targets. Con wizards can sustain any ONE encounter area modification spell for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 their con modifier as a minor action.(E.G. am 18 con ghost sound wizard that cast Icy Terrain could sustain the difficult terrain for an extra round as a minor action) Another option is to cue feat bonuses off of ability scores just as spell mastery does. Solid Sound could get a bonus for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 con mod, or a bonus equal to 1/2 con mod(or 2). Arcane Reach could give a reach equal to your dex mod or 1/2 dex mod. Resounding Thunder could give a bonus to push for all thunder powers equal to your wisdom. And the final option is just to add damage to powers based on your specialization. So that thunder powers do +int+wis and cold powers do +int+con and fire powers do +int+dex. [/QUOTE]
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