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Message: <blockquote data-quote="genshou" data-source="post: 4370004" data-attributes="member: 13164">With Search checks, I always assumed PCs were "taking 0"; that is, their bonus to the Search skill has to meet or exceed the DC to notice something such as a secret door.  The concept of "passive searches" the way 4e does it came up in our group, but it was scrapped when I pointed out that a person actively searching has a 45% chance to do worse than someone who isn't actively searching.When I DM I always assume the players will take 20 on every inch of the place after they clear it out, so I give them all the treasure later if they don't find it when they first explore the dungeon.  However, there can be benefits to finding the treasure during the raid--never know when you might find a magic weapon capable of beating the vault guardian's DR hidden in some secret armory.</blockquote>