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<blockquote data-quote="Jondor_Battlehammer" data-source="post: 297833" data-attributes="member: 5335">I can't belive I'm even coming near this one, but...The &quot;tangible&quot; aspects of an illusion rely on you beliving it is real. If you can see it is not, you don't bump into it. It is no longer real. Otherwise you would need FIVE saves to get past it. You get one save anytime it is interacted with, and if you suceed, the spell is seen through.True seeing allows you to see that which is hidden. If it were any more complicated than that, it would be in the description. There are other more complicated spells in the book that do get explained to death, and that do have such loopholes filled in their very description. I don't think that I, at the time of this writing no less, am the first to come up with the idea of lenses of true seeing, (with my luck the idea is well publicized,<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ). If that spell worked the way you are arguing that it does, you would ALWAYS FAIL every save vs. every illusion, in fact, you would get no save.This is just like the Phased Arrow argument. To use it, you do not need to know someones name, just where they are. Likewise, with See Invisibility or True Seeing, you are aware of deceptions, both the fact that there was a deception, and what lies under it. This game was not written by lawyers, for lawyers, so the description should not be put through such verbal gymnastics.They let you see through illusions. Simple. Easy. Less than complex.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jondor_Battlehammer, post: 297833, member: 5335"] I can't belive I'm even coming near this one, but... The "tangible" aspects of an illusion rely on you beliving it is real. If you can see it is not, you don't bump into it. It is no longer real. Otherwise you would need FIVE saves to get past it. You get one save anytime it is interacted with, and if you suceed, the spell is seen through. True seeing allows you to see that which is hidden. If it were any more complicated than that, it would be in the description. There are other more complicated spells in the book that do get explained to death, and that do have such loopholes filled in their very description. I don't think that I, at the time of this writing no less, am the first to come up with the idea of lenses of true seeing, (with my luck the idea is well publicized,:) ). If that spell worked the way you are arguing that it does, you would ALWAYS FAIL every save vs. every illusion, in fact, you would get no save. This is just like the Phased Arrow argument. To use it, you do not need to know someones name, just where they are. Likewise, with See Invisibility or True Seeing, you are aware of deceptions, both the fact that there was a deception, and what lies under it. This game was not written by lawyers, for lawyers, so the description should not be put through such verbal gymnastics. They let you see through illusions. Simple. Easy. Less than complex. [/QUOTE]

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