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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5654821" data-attributes="member: 4937">Actually, there are probably MORE rules.  It's just that the rules are scattered about separate independent subsystems, so it makes them really easy to forget about, ignore, or tweak.  At the same time, it makes it harder to adopt rules from one situation to another situation.  There are relatively few generic mechanics, and most of the uses of mechanics that could be considered generic are non-canonical.So, yeah, the same result obtains.And that's probably about fair, because a 7th level Ranger is probably at least as capable as a 10th level thief.  Unless the Thief is at least 2 levels higher than other classes by the mid-levels, the Thief simply has no advantages to speak of either in hit points, THAC0, expected damage, saving throws, or utility.   By 10th level, when the Thief can really start to rely on his class abilities, the other classes no longer need him.  The Cleric can cast 'Find Traps' and do it better than the Thief.  The fighters iterative attacks mean that even if the thief backstabbed every round, his expected damage wouldn't be better than the fighter (and his AC, hit points, and saving throws would be worse).  The M-U can cast fly and ascend with far greater safety than climbing the wall, cast Invisibility and hide better than the Thief, or cast Claireaudience/Clairvoyance and hear noise with greater accuracy and safety than the thief listening at doors and trying to avoid things crawling in his ear.  Seriously, speaking as the guy who always played the Thief in 1e, the class is vastly underpowered especially once you include Unearthed Arcana in the midst.  You THAC0 is the same as a 3e Wizard, your saves are poor in almost every category even factoring your higher HD and never scale up the way a fighter or clerics will, so that at higher levels they are poor in every category.  After 2nd level, your hit points suck.  After multiple attacks per round appear, your utility in melee drops to almost nothing.  At low levels your abilities fail more often than they succeed, and failure is painful, so that a good Thief player learns to not rely on them (which makes him a merely a cunning fighter player playing a mechanically nerfed class) and at high levels you are completely outclassed by spell casters.</blockquote>

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