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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garnett" data-source="post: 5505189" data-attributes="member: 6673169">Okay here is my situation and I will try to keep this brief.   I have played D&D for over twenty years and with my current core group for over ten years.  A little over a year ago we added some new players to the core group.  They are a good mix and it was fun yet frustrating at times teaching them the 4e system.    So we have been gaming together for over a year and a couple of these new players still do not have a grasp of the rules.  From simple things such as not reading their powers closely to major things like making things up that just do not exist.  The DM is fairly indifferent and says it is not his job to make sure their characters are “legal” and believe me they are far from it.  This is not as huge a concern to me as is the player’s unwillingness to learn or even listen when one tries to “help” them.  I put help in quotations because if you offer these players your insight as to what their powers should be doing opposed to how they think they should work they get pretty defensive and think you are trying to “nerf” their character.  In general they know about the move/minor/standard and immediate/opportunity actions but have a hard time following them…especially when reacting to everything with a sudden solution which resulted from a mid-level retooling of their character to prevent situation X which happened to them in last week’s game!  For example if in one game a PC was stunned a lot or slowed a lot you can be sure the next time he shows up he will have a way out of it via an item or feat, legit or not.  As mentioned above the DM knows about the situation yet refuses to get into it as he feels it is not his job.  There are many sources and our DM just has the core books.  If a player comes to the table with a made up feat or item he has no reference to know if it is real or not.  Well I do…in the form of the Insider compendium.  I know that many things these players do are not legit yet quit calling them on it based off the negative reactions I got from them.  As a DM I think it would be odd to see a player have a way out of absolutely everything that happens to the PC and add like (seriously) five or six modifiers onto their damage roll after normal damage was initially tallied.  A lot of times he doesn’t even count their actions, he just rolls with it.  Now I also DM quite a bit….. but not for these players.  I fear my more “by the book” approach would not be up their alley.  This situation has lingered and been largely ignored by me, the group and the DM for about the last six months.  Recently our PC’s in this campaign have hit about level 16 and their misuse of the rules is really starting to show more and more as powers and items (some legit and some not) pile up on them.  I am considering not playing in the group as I do not really have fun at all but I don’t want to mess with the campaign and be “that guy.”  I need some advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation.</blockquote>

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