Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
seeking aid to develop 40K RPG rules for Genestealer Cult PCs
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="knasser" data-source="post: 7169300" data-attributes="member: 65151"><p>Okay. I'm going to interrupt to say that I don't think humans are <em>meant</em> to be Good Guys. WH40K is a vast, sprawling setting and you get things like the Gaunt's Ghosts novels where it's all written from the point of view of Imperial Guardsmen and so yes, humans are the Good Guys. Especially as the enemy is almost unanimously Chaos in those novels. But from a wider, top-down view and non-human centric writing in the setting, of which there is lots, I don't think it's even meant to be the case. Keep in mind that WH40K is <strong>British</strong>. British don't do open sincerity. The British are stained in irony. It suffuses them the way tea suffuses a dunked biscuit. From the very start, the WH40K setting has been over the top, super-dark satire. The heroes of humanity are genetically engineered ubermensch religiously indoctrinated to serve a dead guy worshipped as a saviour. The Inquisition are essentially Catholic Space Nazis purging heresy and mutants. There are no Good Guys amongst the factions. The closest you can probably get to Good Guys is, ironically, the orks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The quote you picked out could be word for word copy from any dictator or zealot you care to pick - you'll find variants on it from the Nazis to Islamic State to militant communists. It's very definitely put in as satire.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd say you're missing a great opportunity to achieve what you want here, which is to make the Genestealers "not villains".</p><p></p><p>Genestealer cults typically preach a doctrine that wonderful sky gods are going to come and free them. Consider things from the cult's perspective. They exist within a society that would kill them without question were they exposed. They carry the genes within them that arrived from the unknowable depths of Space. The Tyranids, to genestealer cults, are essentially the Heavenly Host, the Messiah and the Book of Revelations all rolled into one. They grow and broadcast their psychic beacon calling to be saved. And then what arrives? An all-devouring swarm that seeks to break down their bodies as food and absorb their psychic knowledge and identity into a ravenous hive consciousness, destroying them as individuals as their bodies are similarly absorbed.</p><p></p><p>It's a Tragedy. A grotesque, bloody tragedy. That is entirely in keeping with the Grimdark nature of the setting. So if you want the players to not be villains, I say you HAVE to separate them from the purpose of the Tyranid Hive Fleet which is to consume everything in its path. The Hive Fleets may or may not be capable of understanding humanity, of communicating with it, but Genestealer hybrids certainly are capable. There's no excuse of not understanding for them. If you want them to not be villains then you have to make them not servants of the Hive Fleet, but unknowing victims who are about to be betrayed by their gods.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The original version of Genestealers had no direct connection with Tyrannids. Later they were revised to be this Aliens style monster for the Space Hulk game. Their first integration with the Tyranids was to make them psychic beacons for the Hive Fleets. They drifted through Space on Hulks until found and then inadvertently transported to a planet where they would simultaneously weaken the governments and organizations of that world and, through their growing numbers, generate a psychic homing signal for the Tyranids. They were so much seeds as they were a combination of scouts and infiltrators. IIRC they could hibernate on a hulk for centuries.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think it flew over the heads of setting writers. As given above, they already had a purpose which makes sense. And Tyranids don't do "agriculture". If they did, they would be carrying out the cycle of planting and harvest you talk about in their own galaxy, not forced to travel to ours having eaten everything where they come from. Tyranids don't do "sustainable". They strip every shred of organic matter from the worlds in their path leaving uninhabitable dust bowls. They then move onto the next. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I believe that purestrains also have an individual nature. A cult may have a single purestrain at its heart, which grows to become the Patriarch. I'm pretty sure that is an individual. It is not until the coming of a Broodlord that you get integration into the Hive mind.</p><p></p><p>For the rules of the game I have in mind...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It sounds like a fun concept for the game. I can't suggest much mechanically as I stopped the FF series after they shelved their original 2nd Ed. DH which I liked a lot and replaced it with DH 1.2 . But fluff-wise, I would suggest playing down the connection with the Hive Fleet. Serving something that you KNOW is going to genocide every living thing around you doesn't fit well with being "not villains," in my opinion. Far more effective to have the poor cultists genuinely believe in some Rapture that is coming and believe that by infecting others / persuading them to join the cult, they are actually saving those people. Genestealers and Hyrbids function as individuals normally. They can't pretend they are unable to interact with humanity.</p><p></p><p><strong>EDIT:</strong> I do suggest you give Purestrain 'stealers a significant bonus to Perception tests, by the way. Because we all know to be four-armed is to be four-warned. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="knasser, post: 7169300, member: 65151"] Okay. I'm going to interrupt to say that I don't think humans are [I]meant[/I] to be Good Guys. WH40K is a vast, sprawling setting and you get things like the Gaunt's Ghosts novels where it's all written from the point of view of Imperial Guardsmen and so yes, humans are the Good Guys. Especially as the enemy is almost unanimously Chaos in those novels. But from a wider, top-down view and non-human centric writing in the setting, of which there is lots, I don't think it's even meant to be the case. Keep in mind that WH40K is [B]British[/B]. British don't do open sincerity. The British are stained in irony. It suffuses them the way tea suffuses a dunked biscuit. From the very start, the WH40K setting has been over the top, super-dark satire. The heroes of humanity are genetically engineered ubermensch religiously indoctrinated to serve a dead guy worshipped as a saviour. The Inquisition are essentially Catholic Space Nazis purging heresy and mutants. There are no Good Guys amongst the factions. The closest you can probably get to Good Guys is, ironically, the orks. The quote you picked out could be word for word copy from any dictator or zealot you care to pick - you'll find variants on it from the Nazis to Islamic State to militant communists. It's very definitely put in as satire. I'd say you're missing a great opportunity to achieve what you want here, which is to make the Genestealers "not villains". Genestealer cults typically preach a doctrine that wonderful sky gods are going to come and free them. Consider things from the cult's perspective. They exist within a society that would kill them without question were they exposed. They carry the genes within them that arrived from the unknowable depths of Space. The Tyranids, to genestealer cults, are essentially the Heavenly Host, the Messiah and the Book of Revelations all rolled into one. They grow and broadcast their psychic beacon calling to be saved. And then what arrives? An all-devouring swarm that seeks to break down their bodies as food and absorb their psychic knowledge and identity into a ravenous hive consciousness, destroying them as individuals as their bodies are similarly absorbed. It's a Tragedy. A grotesque, bloody tragedy. That is entirely in keeping with the Grimdark nature of the setting. So if you want the players to not be villains, I say you HAVE to separate them from the purpose of the Tyranid Hive Fleet which is to consume everything in its path. The Hive Fleets may or may not be capable of understanding humanity, of communicating with it, but Genestealer hybrids certainly are capable. There's no excuse of not understanding for them. If you want them to not be villains then you have to make them not servants of the Hive Fleet, but unknowing victims who are about to be betrayed by their gods. The original version of Genestealers had no direct connection with Tyrannids. Later they were revised to be this Aliens style monster for the Space Hulk game. Their first integration with the Tyranids was to make them psychic beacons for the Hive Fleets. They drifted through Space on Hulks until found and then inadvertently transported to a planet where they would simultaneously weaken the governments and organizations of that world and, through their growing numbers, generate a psychic homing signal for the Tyranids. They were so much seeds as they were a combination of scouts and infiltrators. IIRC they could hibernate on a hulk for centuries. I don't think it flew over the heads of setting writers. As given above, they already had a purpose which makes sense. And Tyranids don't do "agriculture". If they did, they would be carrying out the cycle of planting and harvest you talk about in their own galaxy, not forced to travel to ours having eaten everything where they come from. Tyranids don't do "sustainable". They strip every shred of organic matter from the worlds in their path leaving uninhabitable dust bowls. They then move onto the next. I believe that purestrains also have an individual nature. A cult may have a single purestrain at its heart, which grows to become the Patriarch. I'm pretty sure that is an individual. It is not until the coming of a Broodlord that you get integration into the Hive mind. For the rules of the game I have in mind... It sounds like a fun concept for the game. I can't suggest much mechanically as I stopped the FF series after they shelved their original 2nd Ed. DH which I liked a lot and replaced it with DH 1.2 . But fluff-wise, I would suggest playing down the connection with the Hive Fleet. Serving something that you KNOW is going to genocide every living thing around you doesn't fit well with being "not villains," in my opinion. Far more effective to have the poor cultists genuinely believe in some Rapture that is coming and believe that by infecting others / persuading them to join the cult, they are actually saving those people. Genestealers and Hyrbids function as individuals normally. They can't pretend they are unable to interact with humanity. [b]EDIT:[/b] I do suggest you give Purestrain 'stealers a significant bonus to Perception tests, by the way. Because we all know to be four-armed is to be four-warned. :D :D [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
seeking aid to develop 40K RPG rules for Genestealer Cult PCs
Top