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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6518812" data-attributes="member: 6669384">I'll take your bet.&nbsp; They can try it for weeks and their margin for error will still endanger nearby allies.Color Spray does no damage.&nbsp; Save negates completely.&nbsp; While, in theory, you could finish downed foes with a dagger (ignoring the &quot;action economy&quot; aspect), if even one makes the Save, you aren't killing any of them.Glitterdust also does no damage, kills no one, and has a Save for absolute negation of any harmful effect.A Ranged Touch against a 5 foot cube presumes you can &quot;touch&quot; the cube.&nbsp; You can't &quot;touch&quot; a spot in the air with such a spell.&nbsp; It goes right through.Over all I agree that straight damage dealing spells are inferior to &quot;Save or you're screwed&quot; spells.&nbsp; Whether there's a superior spell from another school in any given situation is, however, beside the point.The point is that ranged AoE spells aren't played at the table as they are written in the rules.&nbsp; Nobody does &quot;Direction and Range&quot;.&nbsp; They do &quot;Absolute placement&quot;, pointing directly to a target spot on the battlemat and declaring that they've successfully placed the spell there, with 100% accuracy.&nbsp; (You see, there are Conjuration spells like Avalanche that this rule applies to, not just Fireballs.)&quot;Absolute placement&quot;, throwing a spell like Fireball at a specific object or point on the ground works under RAW because you can set your &quot;direction&quot; right at it and declare a &quot;distance&quot; of maximum range.&nbsp; The fiery bead detonates when it hits the solid object (target or the ground) so overshoot or premature detonation aren't a factor.When targeting a point in midair those safety rails are gone.&nbsp; You have to actually call the range right.In the real world, before RADAR range finders, cannon crews at sea used to depend on a preliminary &quot;ranging shot&quot; to determine distance.&nbsp; They'd fire a shot into the water, in the direction of the target, with a powder charge and angle that generated a known distance, just to see how far off they were in targeting enemy shipping.Today a good gunner can park a shell in your car's glove compartment.&nbsp; Once they're &quot;ranged and sighted in&quot;, that is.&nbsp; That's why artillery spotters are still used, and the phrase &quot;They've got our range now&quot; is bad news for anyone on the receiving end.The parallel is a fair one, since Evocations are the &quot;artillery&quot; of D&amp;D.&nbsp; And they don't come with inherent pinpoint accuracy.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 6518812, member: 6669384"] I'll take your bet. They can try it for weeks and their margin for error will still endanger nearby allies. Color Spray does no damage. Save negates completely. While, in theory, you could finish downed foes with a dagger (ignoring the "action economy" aspect), if even one makes the Save, you aren't killing any of them. Glitterdust also does no damage, kills no one, and has a Save for absolute negation of any harmful effect. A Ranged Touch against a 5 foot cube presumes you can "touch" the cube. You can't "touch" a spot in the air with such a spell. It goes right through. Over all I agree that straight damage dealing spells are inferior to "Save or you're screwed" spells. Whether there's a superior spell from another school in any given situation is, however, beside the point. The point is that ranged AoE spells aren't played at the table as they are written in the rules. Nobody does "Direction and Range". They do "Absolute placement", pointing directly to a target spot on the battlemat and declaring that they've successfully placed the spell there, with 100% accuracy. (You see, there are Conjuration spells like [I]Avalanche[/I] that this rule applies to, not just [I]Fireball[/I]s.) "Absolute placement", throwing a spell like [I]Fireball[/I] at a specific object or point on the ground works under RAW because you can set your "direction" right at it and declare a "distance" of maximum range. The fiery bead detonates when it hits the solid object (target or the ground) so overshoot or premature detonation aren't a factor. When targeting a point in midair those safety rails are gone. You have to actually call the range right. In the real world, before RADAR range finders, cannon crews at sea used to depend on a preliminary "ranging shot" to determine distance. They'd fire a shot into the water, in the direction of the target, with a powder charge and angle that generated a known distance, just to see how far off they were in targeting enemy shipping. Today a good gunner can park a shell in your car's glove compartment. Once they're "ranged and sighted in", that is. That's why artillery spotters are still used, and the phrase "They've got our range now" is bad news for anyone on the receiving end. The parallel is a fair one, since Evocations are the "artillery" of D&D. And they don't come with inherent pinpoint accuracy. [/QUOTE]

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