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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Evilboy" data-source="post: 2394352" data-attributes="member: 186">Those sneak attack dice look alot bigger than they are.A level 5 rogue with TWF can potentially deal 2d6+6d6 damage + anything for strength (two short swords + two sneak attacks).  Not shabby.A level 5 fighter with a greatsword can potentially deal 2d6+strength+power attack+weapon specialization every round against any enemy type without suprise or flanking.  Not shabby.The fighter is going to have a +5 better chance to hit than the rogue (-2 for TWF, 2 points better BAB, and 1 point for the weapon focus feat the rogue can't afford to take with TWF).  Let's make that a -5 power attack just to keep things fair.So, 8d6 versus 2d6 + strength (x1.5) + 2 + 10.If we assume the fighter and rogue have the same strength (unlikely), your average damage will look something like...Rogue: 28 damage.Fighter: 19 damage.If we give the fighter a 4-point strength advantage (seems fair), we'd get:Rogue: 28 damageFighter: 22 damage and 10% more likely to hit opponent (since that extra +2 can't be used with a power attack at level 5)The rogue deals 9 more damage if the fighter has the same strength score as the rogue.  A level 5 fighter will have, on average, about 12 HP more than a rogue, assuming identical constitution scores.  The fighter will also have higher AC and, unlike the rogue, can continue attacking at full strength past the first round, regardless of flanking. The fighter will also deal far more damage on a critical hit, which will bring the fighter's average damage score up slightly, making the differences even smaller than what's listed here (the rogue's sneak attack dice don't benefit from a critical, so a critical from the rogue is virtually worthless).So, if a level 5 rogue sneak-attacked a level 5 fighter, the fighter could counterattack and the rogue's best combat ability wouldn't be enough to make up for the fighter's higher HP, let alone the other advantages the fighter has in melee combat.Sneak attack can be damaging, as any core class ability can be.  It is far from broken.  A flanking rogue is scary, but a rogue who is denied their dex bonus to AC after tumbling into the middle of melee is unlikely to survive more than a round of combat.Oh, last note, on hiding and sneak attacks:  AFAIK, it is true that once revealed, a rogue is no longer "hidden", but usually when attacking from hiding or attacking when invisible, the rogue will have the element of suprise.  So while the first attack may reveal the rogue's presence, unless the target was previously aware of the rogue's presence (say, they were already in combat), the rogue would still gain benefits from attacking a flat-footed target.</blockquote>

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