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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Composer99" data-source="post: 9752386" data-attributes="member: 7030042">Spells such as create food and water still exist in Level Up!, and not only does the ranger class still exist in Level Up!, if anything the class has even more widgets with which to interact with exploration or logistical play than does the 2014!5e ranger, much less the 2024!5e ranger. As such I do not agree that "logistics matters" play requires eliminating spells and classes from the game.That last question strikes me as odd. Among the goals of enabling "logistics matter" play include such things as:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Making it worth your while to do things like forage for food in the wilderness;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Making it worth your while to keep track of how much you are carrying;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Making it worth your while to account for carrying a light source, such as a lantern, sunrod, torch, or what-have-you.</li> </ul>To my mind, that happens not by including rules that are merely punitive ("eat enough food or you starve!") but by integrating decision-points related to logistical considerations into core gameplay and by making it rewarding for players to engage with those decision-points.Circling back to your last question, another way to put it is that "logistics matter" play makes it worth your while to bring characters like a ranger along - not because they bypass the decision-points during gameplay, but because they add to the possible set of solutions you can apply to those decisions.[HR][/HR]With respect to logistics in gameplay, the problem with modern D&D, as I see it, is two-fold:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">In practice, logistical considerations don't actually matter in play, but the game has a surprising plentitude of rules making it out that they do, from the rules for malnutrition to the need to count up weight by the pound.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">These rules that the game possesses are, more or less, exclusively punitive in nature, with no interesting decision points to be had. You either have enough food or you (eventually) start gaining levels of Exhaustion, for instance.</li> </ol>Obviously, what qualifies as interesting or fun decision-points during play is going to vary from player to player; all the more reason, to my mind, for D&D to either jettison logistics play entirely or to spin it off into an optional rules module, depending on the size of the player base that enjoys such play. In any case I do not think that there is enough demand for logistical play to continue to incorporate it in the core rules of the game.</blockquote>

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