Pathfinder 1E Sell me on Pathfinder!

[wayne62682]

I've played 3.5 for around three years, 4E for a year and a half. My current group kind of dissolved late last year and we're looking at reforming it soon; my old DM suggested I give DMing a try. He played 2nd edition way back when, got 3rd but never played (felt cheated that 3.5 came out like just after he got the 3E books), and has DMed 4E. His wife, who also plays, has never played before and started with 4E when we began the last campaign. We have another player who has played 3.5E and I'm trying to get a fourth who also has 3.5E experience.

I suggested we try out Pathfinder, mainly because I absolutely love Paizo's adventure paths, and since I'm not a very creative person when it comes to adventure writing, having an entire campaign really appeals to me. Also, having played 4E I kind of miss the limitless flexibility of Pathfinder (don't get me wrong, I like 4E - I just miss having full flexibility to create exactly what I want via multiclassing and Prestige Classes, instead of picking some Paragon Path that kinda sorta maybe is what I want, but not entirely, just it's the closest thing). Also, 3.5 was a lot easier to balance for fewer than the recommended players; as I said we're looking at only 3, maybe 4 players (depending on if I can convince a friend to play again), and Pathfinder is designed for four while 4E is designed for five and really is less flexible when it comes to less players, since everything is based around a 5-man party with defined "roles" like WoW instances (and that's not a bad thing - I play WoW and love WoW and see the similarities, and appreciate them).

So, I'm asking you guys to "sell" Pathfinder to me, as a 4E and former 3.5E player. What's good about it? What's bad? What "bad" parts of 3.5 weren't touched, and what problems were really fixed and improved? Is it "difficult" for someone who is only familiar with 4E to pick up Pathfinder (I highly doubt it, just asking for clarity). How about for someone familiar with 3.5 (even lower learning curve, I'm assuming)?

In short, what makes Pathfinder a good choice? Assume I don't have my 3.5E splatbooks anymore (because I don't know where they are ) and would be ONLY using Pathfinder books, probably just the Core Rulebook for now (I saw some paperback optional rules that had some extra classes like a Swordmage-type thing, and a Swasbuckler that looked interesting too but want to limit things to start and not jump into 3.5 splatbook hell all over again)

 

[Ahnehnois]

One of the best things is that like 3.5, PF is available online. You can check out the whole ruleset for free, including some expansions to core rules.

It maintains basically every posititive aspect of 3e; particularly the flexibility you noted. The combat maneuver system is a tremendous improvement over the old grapple/trip/etc. rules. Poisons and diseases are much more dynamic that any edition of D&D. The nonmagic classes have improved substantially.

What "bad" parts of 3.5 weren't touched

Buffs and magic item dependency. Complexity and power of high-level casters. Resurrection. Still uses the hp system (which 4e didn't improve much either). There are also some changes I didn't like; the races have all been needlessly powered up, for instance, the skill system has been simplified a bit and some classes (barbarian especially) have acquired quasi-magical powers. That said, all these aspects are actually similar to 4e.

All that said, there is nothing difficult to learn in PF if you know 3e. If you don't, some of the more painful aspects of 3e have been simplified, so if you understand rpgs in general it would be easy to learn. If you want to play one game that captures the essence of D&D and does what you want it to do without needing a lot of houserules, you can't do better than PF.

 

[wayne62682]

Sounds like my opinion that PF would be great is well-founded then Plus the awesome, awesome, AWESOME (did I stress that enough?) adventure paths from Paizo. I wonder how hard it would be to convert the old 3.5 ones to Pathfinder... probably not hard at all since they were designed for six PCs using all the splatbooks, so maybe if the PCs used PF rules and NPCs kept their 3.5 rules it would balance it out? Might be something to look at in the future.

 

[IronWolf]

I like Pathfinder. I found it liberating to go back to just a core rule book, bestiary and work with what was included there for games. The free online SRD mentioned already is always a great resource for when I am away from my books or too lazy to move from the couch and track down my rulebook!

As far as the ruleset goes, some tweaks and such that I consider generally good for the game. Probably an easy change for a person going from 3.5 to Pathfinder. I haven't played 4e so I cannot comment on that transition. There will be subtle changes that might catch some people by surprise, for example clerics do not have proficiency in heavy armor as they did in 3.5. There will be other changes like that which are small, but change how one used to think in 3.5. Just be alert for them and you should be fine.

Outside of all that, as you said the adventure path's are excellent and well written. The artwork in these books - the adventure paths, core rulebook, bestiary, etc is all outstanding in my opinion. It will inspire you to play the game.

 

[Emirikol]

I switched from 4e after a year of trying to like it, to WFRP (awesome game systems) to Pathfinder.

Pathfinder won out for a couple reasons:
1. Adventure paths. Talk about easy on the DM! I need scenarios that are easy to prep and easy to run with good storylines.
2. Can EASILY be house-ruled. I like to house rule stuff..4e was a mess to houserule.
3. Living Pathfinder / Pathfinder Society Open Play == CONVENTION FRIENDS
4. I can still use my 3.5 stacks (and stacks and stacks and stacks). The only thing I really dig back to is the occasional monster and my players always like to have more classes.
5. Pathfinder has ALL the best writers and are uninhibited.
6. Scenarios are more than D&D miniatures combats with a good mix of plot and combats (although not as good as WFRP, WoD, or Cthulhu scenarios where the word "roleplaying" still means something)
7. Well-developed world with lots of cultures. You want Black Mawangi? You got it.
8. You can find players. One of the things that made it difficult to switch to other fine systems (savage worlds, wfrp, cthulhu, etc.) is that you don't have the player selection that D&D brings. I've found the bait and switch to work best: start with D&D until you get some people you like and then switch to whatever you REALLY want to play

The Bad:
1. No minions unless you house rule them in. WFRP3e and D&D4e are on the right track with this thing. Having a 1hp mook that can ACTUALLY HIT YOU is necessary for the fun of the game. This is one thing that bothers me about the Open Play scenarios. Combats are either impossible or a cakewalk.

2. You're a GM instead of a DM. I'd liked to be called MOP..master over players

3. Pathfinder classes are more powerful than 3e classes. To make up for that, you should find a balance such as granting an extra feat to the 3e classes every 3rd level.

4. STILL LACKING SKILL POINTS FOR NON-ROGUE CLASSES. Classes are still crap on skill points and they still use the obsolete mechanic of "class skills." This is one thing that holds back the roleplaying the same way that 3e did and even moreso in 4e the miniatures combat game.

5. It's OGL. As long as it's under the thumb of the OGL, evolution will be stunted.

I've some resources on my gallery site for Pathfinder if you want to download them: Jay H's Maptool Stuff

Here's the SRD online for the system:http://gallery.rptools.net/v/contrib/emirikol7/?g2_page=2

jh


..

 

[ruemere]

THE GOOD

1. This is still your game. You can do stuff with it without worrying of being sued. You can use OGL to freely contribute. And you know, that if someone gets a great idea, they can sell it.
Recent OGL non-Paizo additions of great value to my library: Slumbering Tsar, SORD PF, Sunken Empires.

I know that some folks blame OGL for allowing products of bad quality... well, it's like with a free choice - you can do both good and bad things, but hey, you're free to choose. And preserving ability of creative folks to do great things for your game is always a great asset.

2. Paizo folks. Open, helpful, friendly.

3. Game material - prints with free PDFs. Let me repeat that: if you subscribe to get a book, you get searchable, bookmarked PDF for free.
Oh, and there are tons of FREE downloads.

4. This is still D20.


THE BAD

There are sacred cows which still persevere in order to maintain compatibility (on the plus side, running games using 3.x materials is easy).


THE UGLY

Some people still produce bad stuff. And label it PFRPG compatible.
Fortunately, browsing previews and reading opinions is usually sufficient to avoid bad stuff.
Also, on a positive side, everyone has to start somehow - and learn. I'm sure that Monte Cook's first book was not on par with the quality he produces today.


Regards,
Ruemere

 

[unan oranis]

If I were to run published modules only, pathfinder would be the obvious choice.

Even with their most cliche plot lines they pull off the highest quality adventures out there (with the best art too).

 

[Mark]

Pathfinder RPG Discussion - EN World D&D / RPG News

PF has a forum here where you could probably find a lot of additional support.

 

[Minicol]

Pathfinder ROCKS !!!

No seriously. I hardly ever noticed the transition between 3.X and PF, except that we don't spend as much time arguing rules.

Only problem : some of the spells have changed somewhat, so if you are a rules lawyers, you need to reread them now and then.

And since you already know about the cool modules ... What can I say ?

Indulge yourself.

 

[Steel_Wind]

The best thing about Pathfinder are the adventures, imo.

Every month:

1 x 96 page Adventure Path Volume
2 x 16-20 page Pathfinder Society Scenarios

Every other month:

1 x 32 page Module

Add this to the flip-mat line, the map folio, line, the card decks, the Pathfinder minuature line, -- and the bevy of Player companion and Chronicles products for players and GMs alike, and it all turns out to be the best supported world and adventure system in the RPG business.

The rules set is very good. But the adventures is what makes the game for me. So good, that analysis and breakdown of those adventures makes for a very good podcast subject too