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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 4732935" data-attributes="member: 12731">I'm exploring ways to get rid of healing surges (aka "how it's impossible for a monster dealing mediocre damage to actually down a PC without first grinding through all his healing surges, which then makes that PC promptly refuse to keep adventuring after said encounter").This idea would mean you heal up for free after each fight. Now, that means I need another way of representing "weariness" and being battered. Not that I mind if my rule does away with the "short adventuring day" concept. Having expended your Dailies and accruing a few downed penalties will mean that sometimes the party will feel it prudent to rest up for the day; but hopefully not as often and not as abrupt as by the regular rules.Specifically, I'm looking to add a mechanism that triggers if you reach zero hp during the fight. I'll call this the Downed Penalty (to separate it from any Death Penalty or Bloodied Penalty you mightbe using). In other words, staying on your feet should be the priority in a fight - the reward is that, if you aren't downed, then you're good to go for another encounter.This focus on staying on your feet (instead of just an abstract worry for your surges) I hope will translate to more edgy fights, where the opponents can actually be dangerous (rather than just aiming to shave off a surge or two).What this thread isn't about, however, are two things:1) I'm not discussing a Bloodied Penalty. To me, "bloodied" is used by the game to signify that the "stakes are raised" (sometimes giving you actual benefits!). Besides, you will often become bloodied at no fault of your own. The game is designed to give you time to react before you reach 0 hp, but not before that. Giving out penalties for reaching a status you'll reach all the time would be inappropriate in this context. (If you feel like discussing this, please start a new thread)2) I would like to explore alternatives to handing out general penalties (such as the Death Penalty). What I don't like about general penalties to attacks is that it doesn't offers any alternatives or workarounds. It's just a penalty to everything you do; thus adding fuel to the fire for the "death spiral" critics. (Again, if you feel like discussing this, please start a new thread)Okay then... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />What if we tie the consequences (the Downed Penalty) to the centerpiece of the 4E design instead?That is, powers.In the simplest (but crudest) case, the Downed Penalty would mean losing access to one of your powers for a certain length of time. This could mean randomly selecting one of your Encounter Powers, say. (These powers would return to you after an Extended Rest).Losing an at-will should probably be reserved for a more serious injury, as this will have a greater impact on your character. I can also see that for some classes (TWB Ranger & Twin Strike) the loss of certain at-wills can be a disproportionate penalty.At best, this will force the player to think creatively, using seldom-used powers and generally be flexible to overcome his (temporary) handicap.At worst, it will not just make the character feel crippled (which after all is the intention ) but actually feel like there's no choice left in the character. It is in this case it's perhaps best to apply a penalty to the selected power than outright disabling the entire power. A -2 penalty is probably appropriate, remembering it only applies to a single power (compared to the RAW -1 death penalty which doesn't change the way you play the character, since it applies equally to everything)As closing words, this suggestion is meant to feel "more natural" from the point of the 4E core design, than simple general penalties. It assumes no character becomes horribly gimped by the loss of any single power - only that the character becomes interestingly gimped by this loss... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The next step would be to implement an actual rule that would answer which powers you stand to lose in each case.What do you think?</blockquote>

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