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<blockquote data-quote="thzero" data-source="post: 5800201" data-attributes="member: 86754">And in 1e (yes, it had skills), 2e, 3e.&nbsp; Not to mention any number of other skill based systems.But using your argument, 4e is &quot;flawed&quot; because some people are better swimmers than they are acrobats, but 4e lumps them both together.&nbsp; All game systems are abstractions, so there has to be a limit to how fine-grained the skills are otherwise you get an overly complex game that isn't really usable.&nbsp; I think you give way too much credit to the &quot;4e-style skills&quot; considering, they are in reality a reduced variant of the 3e skills, which in turn are variants of other systems anyways.But I really can't think of many games that don't have skills.&nbsp; All the d20-variants, Hero, Action, Savage Worlds, GURPS (well of course), Storyteller, d6, etc.DragonsAge RPG uses a system much more like what seems to have been being mentioned in the transcript.&nbsp; die roll + Ability + &quot;modifier&quot;.&nbsp; But in reality thats all the 4e, 3e, etc. skills are anyways.&nbsp; They have been just written down.&nbsp; There isn't anything that says the 5e rules can't have a set of fairly commonly used skills that are predefined, nor does it mean a player can't setup a bunch of predefined skills himself based on the background of his character.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="thzero, post: 5800201, member: 86754"] And in 1e (yes, it had skills), 2e, 3e. Not to mention any number of other skill based systems. But using your argument, 4e is "flawed" because some people are better swimmers than they are acrobats, but 4e lumps them both together. All game systems are abstractions, so there has to be a limit to how fine-grained the skills are otherwise you get an overly complex game that isn't really usable. I think you give way too much credit to the "4e-style skills" considering, they are in reality a reduced variant of the 3e skills, which in turn are variants of other systems anyways. But I really can't think of many games that don't have skills. All the d20-variants, Hero, Action, Savage Worlds, GURPS (well of course), Storyteller, d6, etc. DragonsAge RPG uses a system much more like what seems to have been being mentioned in the transcript. die roll + Ability + "modifier". But in reality thats all the 4e, 3e, etc. skills are anyways. They have been just written down. There isn't anything that says the 5e rules can't have a set of fairly commonly used skills that are predefined, nor does it mean a player can't setup a bunch of predefined skills himself based on the background of his character. [/QUOTE]

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