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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 5172675" data-attributes="member: 57383">Strength 32 for a Medium sized turtle? I don't remember them being that nasty!Only joking, I remember them being pretty big, and going by the size adjustment they were Gargantuan.Actually that gets me thinking. The illustration for them suggests dragonfly turtles get a lot bigger than 10 feet long. Assuming the chair is sized for a human and not a gnome, I'd guesstimate the Dragonfly Turtle is some 12 feet wide and 18 feet long - easily Huge sized considering turtles are weighty for their length.So, how about advancing them to Gargantuan?A Dragon Turtle is a Huge 12HD creature so might prove a handy basis for HD comparison. Their growth stages could go 1-2 HD (Small), 3-5 HD (Medium), 6-11 HD (Large), 12-23 HD (Huge), 24-32 HD (Gargantuan) based on the description.So the 8 HD adult we're statting up could be about halfway through its Large advancement - say, 6 feet wide, 10 feet long and 2000 pounds.I also wondered about downsizing a Dragon Turtle to Large, which would give Str 19, Dex 8, Con 17, +14 natural. However I feel Dragon Turtle's are sadly underpowered in 3E (I'd use the SRD stats for a Large Juvenile Dragon Turtle myself, but that's another issue).So, I'd rather lean towards the higher of those two, i.e.:Dragonfly Turtle: Str 22, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 8, +10 naturalHover as a bonus feat was the one of first things that occured to me, too.Rather than a critical vulnerability it reads more like you can make Sunder attacks against the wings with fiery weapons or burn them off with AoE spells. We may want to just drop it, but if we decide to give it this trait I'm thinking something like:Combustible Wings (Ex): A dragonfly turtle's four wings are highly flammable. An opponent with a flaming weapon may make Sunder attacks against a wings (AC17). If they do 4 or more points of fire damage in a single hit the wing burns off. A dragonfly turtle which has lost a single wing cannot fly, but can slow its fall to X feet per round and land without taking falling damage. A turtle that has lost two or more wings takes normal falling damage. A dragonfly turtle that fails a Reflex save against an area of effect fire attack must make an additional Fortitude save at the same DC or suffer damage to its wings. If it took 5 or more fire damage from the attack its wings are damaged but it is able to make an erratic but semi-controlled descent (as if it had lost a single wing), 10 or more damage and it falls like a stone. As for the furniture, that looks like flavour for an exotic saddle or howdah to me.</blockquote>

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