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<blockquote data-quote="Quasqueton" data-source="post: 2136645" data-attributes="member: 3854">Actually, the truth is quite the contrary. What Player didn't have his saves written right on his character sheet? All &quot;official&quot; character sheets had spaces specifically for entering the number. What Player didn't have his THAC0 written down? (Even before actual &quot;THAC0&quot;, Players knew what they had to roll to hit what AC.) When the DM said, &quot;save vs. death&quot;, the Player knew exactly what he had to roll; it was a set number, right in front of him. When the Player scored a 14 on his attack, and the DM said, &quot;miss&quot;, the Player could say, &quot;well, he's got better than a 3 AC&quot;. I never knew a single Player (other than absolute beginners) who didn't have this info written out on his sheet.Now, in D&amp;D3, when a DM calls for a Will save, the Player doesn't know what he has to roll; he just knows his bonus. If the Player says, &quot;15&quot;, the DM can fudge (if he is the type to do so) and say, &quot;made it&quot;. Couldn't do that in earlier versions. A 15 either saved or it didn't, and the Player knew it.Plus, I would not have thought a &quot;sense of wonder&quot; meant being ignorant of how the game works. That kind of &quot;sense of wonder&quot; would drive a DM mad very quickly. &quot;How do I make a jump check, again?&quot;Quasqueton</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Quasqueton, post: 2136645, member: 3854"] Actually, the truth is quite the contrary. What Player didn't have his saves written right on his character sheet? All "official" character sheets had spaces specifically for entering the number. What Player didn't have his THAC0 written down? (Even before actual "THAC0", Players knew what they had to roll to hit what AC.) When the DM said, "save vs. death", the Player knew exactly what he had to roll; it was a set number, right in front of him. When the Player scored a 14 on his attack, and the DM said, "miss", the Player could say, "well, he's got better than a 3 AC". I never knew a single Player (other than absolute beginners) who didn't have this info written out on his sheet. Now, in D&D3, when a DM calls for a Will save, the Player doesn't know what he has to roll; he just knows his bonus. If the Player says, "15", the DM can fudge (if he is the type to do so) and say, "made it". Couldn't do that in earlier versions. A 15 either saved or it didn't, and the Player knew it. Plus, I would not have thought a "sense of wonder" meant being ignorant of how the game works. That kind of "sense of wonder" would drive a DM mad very quickly. "How do I make a jump check, again?" Quasqueton [/QUOTE]

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