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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 4812838" data-attributes="member: 5143">Not really.&nbsp; The idea of the power is that it is an interesting tactical power.&nbsp; Move the enemy into a better position.&nbsp; That is why it isn't a level 29 Daily(which are all less powerful than the instant kill version of this power).Following the flavor of things instead of the intentions behind them is what causes things like my 2e group who used grease and burning hands to take out a level 12 Wizard at 3rd level and get enough XP to go up 5 levels.&nbsp; Simply because a player said, &quot;Grease is flammable.&nbsp; Burning Hands would set the whole thing on fire at once.&nbsp; What happens in real life if you were standing in a 20 foot diameter circle of fire?&nbsp; Your skin would be burned off within seconds.&nbsp; And this is a frail old wizard who studies books all day.&nbsp; There's no way he'd be tough enough to get out of there.&nbsp; I mean, it should do at least as much damage as a fireball, right?&nbsp; Because it's the same thing.&nbsp; Only there's no way he could get a save against it, you can't duck under the grease or leap out of the area of effect or behind cover.&nbsp; So he'd take max damage with no save.&nbsp; That would be around 60 points, right.&nbsp; He's got no Con bonus, so that should killing him outright.&quot;&nbsp; And the DM said, &quot;Makes sense to me.&quot;Better to keep the flavor: &quot;You get to teleport people around and move them into better positions&quot; while also keeping the balance that goes with it: &quot;It does about as much damage as a level 3 Encounter power should do.&quot;&nbsp; And you can do that simply by saying &quot;You must teleport the enemy onto a surface that can support him.&quot;&nbsp; Let's say because the magic needs to flow through a surface and uses a small portion of the strength of the object in order to recreate the target on top of it.&nbsp; If the object is too weak the magic fails, so no teleporting on top of water, lava, or the like.Trust me, you don't want to get into this war with your players.&nbsp; It always ends badly.A player decides to teleport a guy off a cliff and you think, &quot;Oh, is that the way we are going to play?&nbsp; Then surely you won't mind the next battle being against these 16 minions who have the ability to teleport you while fighting on a platform 200 feet in the air.&quot;&nbsp; And suddenly you have a near TPK on your hands.Even if you don't go that far...there is still a reason save or dies were removed from the game.&nbsp; Allowing even one enemy to do this ever reintroduces save or dies into the game.&nbsp; Players love to abuse things they see as loopholes in the rules.&nbsp; But, they often STILL get mad when you use the same loopholes against them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 4812838, member: 5143"] Not really. The idea of the power is that it is an interesting tactical power. Move the enemy into a better position. That is why it isn't a level 29 Daily(which are all less powerful than the instant kill version of this power). Following the flavor of things instead of the intentions behind them is what causes things like my 2e group who used grease and burning hands to take out a level 12 Wizard at 3rd level and get enough XP to go up 5 levels. Simply because a player said, "Grease is flammable. Burning Hands would set the whole thing on fire at once. What happens in real life if you were standing in a 20 foot diameter circle of fire? Your skin would be burned off within seconds. And this is a frail old wizard who studies books all day. There's no way he'd be tough enough to get out of there. I mean, it should do at least as much damage as a fireball, right? Because it's the same thing. Only there's no way he could get a save against it, you can't duck under the grease or leap out of the area of effect or behind cover. So he'd take max damage with no save. That would be around 60 points, right. He's got no Con bonus, so that should killing him outright." And the DM said, "Makes sense to me." Better to keep the flavor: "You get to teleport people around and move them into better positions" while also keeping the balance that goes with it: "It does about as much damage as a level 3 Encounter power should do." And you can do that simply by saying "You must teleport the enemy onto a surface that can support him." Let's say because the magic needs to flow through a surface and uses a small portion of the strength of the object in order to recreate the target on top of it. If the object is too weak the magic fails, so no teleporting on top of water, lava, or the like. Trust me, you don't want to get into this war with your players. It always ends badly. A player decides to teleport a guy off a cliff and you think, "Oh, is that the way we are going to play? Then surely you won't mind the next battle being against these 16 minions who have the ability to teleport you while fighting on a platform 200 feet in the air." And suddenly you have a near TPK on your hands. Even if you don't go that far...there is still a reason save or dies were removed from the game. Allowing even one enemy to do this ever reintroduces save or dies into the game. Players love to abuse things they see as loopholes in the rules. But, they often STILL get mad when you use the same loopholes against them. [/QUOTE]

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