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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yair" data-source="post: 2557361" data-attributes="member: 10913">I've been thinking a bit about the plot, and power levels. I think we have a problem that it's really is the NPC's show that the players just happen to crash, the PCs take too much of a reactive and observing role instead of taking the initiative and a proactive role.We begin, at level 20, with a crises forming and the PCs coming to the rescue. Not a problem, that's the way to start an adventure. The crises cannot be successfully dealt with. In fact, it wouldn't be such a big problem without PC/NPC intervention. That is a problem, the PCs actions and failures should have an appropriate impact on the adventure. I am willing to accept the universe crumbling regardless of player actions at this stage as a necessary plot driving theme, but the manner and extent should be dependant on the players' success. I suggest having an "Extinction Scale" running throughout the adventure. As time moves on the ES increases (or counts down?), creating more and more devastating effects until it reaches its end point when the multiverse is truly destroyed. If the PCs succeed in interfering with the ritual, or at any other adventure, the ES is not advanced, or advances to a lesser extent.I think I've seen such a scale in The Apocalypse Stone; I'll dig it up and post a version of it so you can see what I mean.The two casters should be aiming for (or causing) a more severe catastrophe. PCs actions should alleviate it (potentially).Following the spire-top adventure, the adventure gets very hazy for me with lots of conflicting versions and storylines. Here are my thoughts on the matter.I have a problem with what the deities are doing about all of this. In my opinion, deities (following the Divine SRD guidelines; I don't have Faiths and Pantheons with me right now) vary in power from CR ~55 to CR ~150. They are not powerless, and can pretty much outdo the PCs, at least the greater deities. So we need to understand why they aren't acting, or what they ARE doing.I suggest that they are not uniform in manner or capability. Some, mostly hot-headed and unsubtle, should take direct action and fail - as a warning to the PCs and to indicate guile is needed rather then just mere force. Generally, I think the greater gods and their buddies should not act because they can see the future, and they know they don't need to act - the PCs will take care of things just fine without their intervention, so they can focus on supporting their goals and leave rescuing the world to the heroes of the hour, as usual. The divinities in general should show very little interest in actively solving the problem under this regime; they might take a more active role in exploiting it, though.I am not sure I like the energons as presented, they are too much of a baby the PCs have to clean after. Their schemes should be more subtle and intentional, allowing the PCs to expose and counter them, slowly leading up to facing off with them as a main BBEG. I am thinking of the Excursians from Nobilis here - subtle plays on meaning that seek to undermine the sense behind reality, schemes that will lead to the downfall of cosmic order.For example, instead of simply stepping into heaven and nuking things, the energon might be whispering into the good god's ears, subverting them to evil. Slowly, Heaven is turned into Hell by subvertion and growing tyranny. As a result, the distinction between Heaven and Hell is lost and the two planes clash and meld with each other, a step in the unmaking of the mutliverse.I would add more, but I think I've said enough for one post.</blockquote>

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