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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Seriously contemplating an attempt at a retro AD&D
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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 9462892" data-attributes="member: 3192"><p>To the OP: As you can see, there are many naysayers who know either a false history or hold to a malignly constructed (a la the Forge) misunderstanding of the hobby of role-playing games, especially to D&D. To understand the gamebooks in your hands look back at my post and contemplate it. AD&D is exclusively a strategy game that plays like a computer role-playing game run by someone behind a screen. That is what all those 20th century CRPGs are emulating in their designs. Their gameplay is a representation of what role-playing is. No storytelling, no acting, just scoring points for role-playing (mastering a class, aka role mastery).</p><p></p><p>By the end of the 80s role-playing had changed its definition outside of the hobby and in D&D was used to refer to talking in 1st person during play. This could cause a serious detriment to gameplay, which BTB was about scoring points. When playing poorly, even through the disastrous decade of the 90s, it was common for poor players to blame their "character" for bad choices or bad behavior towards others.</p><p></p><p>Don't be misled by conflations of D&D with wargames. Strategy games simulate all kinds of behavior and AD&D is chock full of these designs. The essential rule here is: the players are never to be shown the "rules" (the design you are repeating, which allow players to actually game for higher scores and improve their proficiency) or the design of the current scenario behind the screen. These two features are the addictive elements of D&D and what kept it from being a footnote to having an enduring legacy of millions so many others wished to steal for their own.</p><p></p><p>When preparing to run, think of the campaign as a generative, borderless gameboard full of designs to be beaten for XP. Don't write a plot, design a balanced game. The Campaign will be the players attempting (and usually failing) to game up to Name Level. Adventures will be a kind of module in the multiverse gameboard similar to a mid-game problem or test in Chess but far grander in scope.</p><p></p><p>These adventures do not have beginnings or ends. They are simply designs held in dynamic equilibrium until the repurcussions of players actions alter them.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">B2 is a campaign starting adventure, big enough for a few early levels and balanced and ready for module insertion.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">B1 is a dungeon maker. Filled with important referee advice, novel designs at the time, and blanks so the final design isn't one players could cheat and read ahead of time for higher scores.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">T1 is a Town and Dungeon - delving is a key XP loop in D&D - but the town is actually the primary XP gaming site, so different than any others.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All of these designs are balanced for strategy gaming and simulation. You plot out their potential futures before play by simulation runs and hold those future probabilities as the "Session Scenario" each and every time.</li> </ul><p>Compare these designs to 2E: The DMG is talking about a game the rules in no way are designed to support. The assumptions are the players know the rules and even the setting (the maze behind the screen).</p><p>- The Avatar Trilogy becomes the misguided design for adventures. All pre-plotted narrative, no matter how well written, with no whiff or comprehension of game design.</p><p></p><p>Of course there is so much more, but to get an idea if how people thought and talked about AD&D in its time read the discussions of the time. For instance, even the slanderous movie "Mazes & Monsters" has a group looking for a "9th level" player to join. It's like asking for a 30th level Pacman player. If you can't play up to that ability, they don't want you.</p><p></p><p>What I am saying is the truth, from someone who remembers. But if you are interested in more help and advice for an AD&D campaign we might be better off direct messaging.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 9462892, member: 3192"] To the OP: As you can see, there are many naysayers who know either a false history or hold to a malignly constructed (a la the Forge) misunderstanding of the hobby of role-playing games, especially to D&D. To understand the gamebooks in your hands look back at my post and contemplate it. AD&D is exclusively a strategy game that plays like a computer role-playing game run by someone behind a screen. That is what all those 20th century CRPGs are emulating in their designs. Their gameplay is a representation of what role-playing is. No storytelling, no acting, just scoring points for role-playing (mastering a class, aka role mastery). By the end of the 80s role-playing had changed its definition outside of the hobby and in D&D was used to refer to talking in 1st person during play. This could cause a serious detriment to gameplay, which BTB was about scoring points. When playing poorly, even through the disastrous decade of the 90s, it was common for poor players to blame their "character" for bad choices or bad behavior towards others. Don't be misled by conflations of D&D with wargames. Strategy games simulate all kinds of behavior and AD&D is chock full of these designs. The essential rule here is: the players are never to be shown the "rules" (the design you are repeating, which allow players to actually game for higher scores and improve their proficiency) or the design of the current scenario behind the screen. These two features are the addictive elements of D&D and what kept it from being a footnote to having an enduring legacy of millions so many others wished to steal for their own. When preparing to run, think of the campaign as a generative, borderless gameboard full of designs to be beaten for XP. Don't write a plot, design a balanced game. The Campaign will be the players attempting (and usually failing) to game up to Name Level. Adventures will be a kind of module in the multiverse gameboard similar to a mid-game problem or test in Chess but far grander in scope. These adventures do not have beginnings or ends. They are simply designs held in dynamic equilibrium until the repurcussions of players actions alter them. [LIST] [*]B2 is a campaign starting adventure, big enough for a few early levels and balanced and ready for module insertion. [*]B1 is a dungeon maker. Filled with important referee advice, novel designs at the time, and blanks so the final design isn't one players could cheat and read ahead of time for higher scores. [*]T1 is a Town and Dungeon - delving is a key XP loop in D&D - but the town is actually the primary XP gaming site, so different than any others. [*]All of these designs are balanced for strategy gaming and simulation. You plot out their potential futures before play by simulation runs and hold those future probabilities as the "Session Scenario" each and every time. [/LIST] Compare these designs to 2E: The DMG is talking about a game the rules in no way are designed to support. The assumptions are the players know the rules and even the setting (the maze behind the screen). - The Avatar Trilogy becomes the misguided design for adventures. All pre-plotted narrative, no matter how well written, with no whiff or comprehension of game design. Of course there is so much more, but to get an idea if how people thought and talked about AD&D in its time read the discussions of the time. For instance, even the slanderous movie "Mazes & Monsters" has a group looking for a "9th level" player to join. It's like asking for a 30th level Pacman player. If you can't play up to that ability, they don't want you. What I am saying is the truth, from someone who remembers. But if you are interested in more help and advice for an AD&D campaign we might be better off direct messaging. [/QUOTE]
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