Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Skywalker" data-source="post: 60865" data-attributes="member: 1538">Psion.&nbsp; I agree that it is more a spectrum but I think that to call D&amp;D and CoC both &quot;middle ground&quot; class systems is misleading.In Cthulhu the only class element is choosing 6-8 career skills.&nbsp; These career skills can be any combination and so it is extremely easy to create any career.&nbsp; The 1920s Investigator Handbook has some optional careers that set out the career skills and perhaps gives a small bonus. D&amp;D classes are a lot more stringent, restrictive and prescribed than that.&nbsp; IMO D&amp;D sits close to the class heavy end of the spectrum.&nbsp; This no doubt is derived from the fact that it is the oldest RPG game out there and fundamental to the original game was classes.&nbsp; D&amp;D 3e is more flexible than its predecessors yet D&amp;D3e is just one small step to being &quot;middle ground&quot; class system.D&amp;D classes make all kinds of decisions and assumptions about a PCs concept that do not need to be made.&nbsp; Cthulhu (and even WW with their splat divisions) does not make these assumptions.&nbsp; Why should Rangers have spells?&nbsp; Why should Thieves get sneak attack if they are a merchant concept?&nbsp; Why should my Expert's attack bonus get bigger because he is more experienced?Again I like D&amp;D and see that its classes have a place.&nbsp; However D&amp;D has lots of artificiality that helps gameplay but IMO hinders player freedom.&nbsp; High game play is good but D&amp;D's restrictions force people to spend extra effort to tinker with the rule set.&nbsp; As I have become more experienced I have found the detriments outweigh the benefits. Fortunately for me I do see D&amp;D moving to classes that provide a tool kit for players (the Fighter is a good example) in d20 Modern and d20 Cthulhu amongst others so D&amp;D is moving towards a more &quot;middle ground&quot; approach and driving away heavy handed class divisions.Again as you mention it is possible to modify the classes.&nbsp; However the difference in D&amp;D to Cthulhu is phenomenal.&nbsp; In Cthulhu a GM can be sure that no matter what 8 career skills the player picks it won't have a large impact on the game.&nbsp; The reason being the game was designed to be extremely flexible and not necessarily balanced.D&amp;D on the other hand is finely balanced and complex when it comes classes.&nbsp; Changing the classes can have serious impact and one needs to balance the old class to all the other classes as well as all kinds of other factors.&nbsp; A good example is looking at the amount of controversy surrounding Monte's variant classes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Skywalker, post: 60865, member: 1538"] Psion. I agree that it is more a spectrum but I think that to call D&D and CoC both "middle ground" class systems is misleading. In Cthulhu the only class element is choosing 6-8 career skills. These career skills can be any combination and so it is extremely easy to create any career. The 1920s Investigator Handbook has some optional careers that set out the career skills and perhaps gives a small bonus. D&D classes are a lot more stringent, restrictive and prescribed than that. IMO D&D sits close to the class heavy end of the spectrum. This no doubt is derived from the fact that it is the oldest RPG game out there and fundamental to the original game was classes. D&D 3e is more flexible than its predecessors yet D&D3e is just one small step to being "middle ground" class system. D&D classes make all kinds of decisions and assumptions about a PCs concept that do not need to be made. Cthulhu (and even WW with their splat divisions) does not make these assumptions. Why should Rangers have spells? Why should Thieves get sneak attack if they are a merchant concept? Why should my Expert's attack bonus get bigger because he is more experienced? Again I like D&D and see that its classes have a place. However D&D has lots of artificiality that helps gameplay but IMO hinders player freedom. High game play is good but D&D's restrictions force people to spend extra effort to tinker with the rule set. As I have become more experienced I have found the detriments outweigh the benefits. Fortunately for me I do see D&D moving to classes that provide a tool kit for players (the Fighter is a good example) in d20 Modern and d20 Cthulhu amongst others so D&D is moving towards a more "middle ground" approach and driving away heavy handed class divisions. Again as you mention it is possible to modify the classes. However the difference in D&D to Cthulhu is phenomenal. In Cthulhu a GM can be sure that no matter what 8 career skills the player picks it won't have a large impact on the game. The reason being the game was designed to be extremely flexible and not necessarily balanced. D&D on the other hand is finely balanced and complex when it comes classes. Changing the classes can have serious impact and one needs to balance the old class to all the other classes as well as all kinds of other factors. A good example is looking at the amount of controversy surrounding Monte's variant classes. [/QUOTE]

Verification