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Seriously, what's so great about a class-less system?
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<blockquote data-quote="Zappo" data-source="post: 61061" data-attributes="member: 633"><p>I have played a ton of games - here are my impressions:</p><p></p><p>GURPS: It is too complex and it has its share of severe quirks. Yeah, you can represent some characters that can't be correctly represented in a class-based system. But in the remaining 90% of the cases, players are making characters that an appropriate class-based system could represent. However, in <em>all</em> cases, it will take you a couple of hours to write the character sheet, unless you are a real pro and know all the infinite advantages/disadvantages and skills. Incidentally, a couple of hours is less or more the time it takes to write a custom class for D&D that is decently balanced and represents that weird character concept that player just came up with. The good part of GURPS is that you can really represent most characters you can think of (well, except for a Raistlin, that is), but it is done in a very inefficient way, from the complexity point of view.</p><p></p><p>Star Wars d6: OMG, that's got to be the ugliest system I've ever played. There are a helluva lot similar skills, but if you are a master in one, it has no influence on the others. This wouldn't be so bad, if not for the fact that the skills are vital. So, to be a good pilot you must raise a half dozen skills, while to be a fighter you only need two (shoot and dodge). And to be a Jedi and do all the incredible stuff a Jedi can do, it's just three skills, less if you only want certain powers. Since they cost the same, it means that when the fighter of the group is a real badass, and the Jedi even more, you will still be just an average pilot. Good points? Can't think any, really.</p><p></p><p>Storyteller (White Wolf): This is a good one, but it has its flaws. First of all, what you can actually do with a skill doesn't match what's in the skill description. Five dots should make you the king of the world in a given skill, but in practice that's hardly true.</p><p>Then, five levels for a skill are too little. There's sooo much between "trained for a week" and "average professional"... but in Storyteller, the first is one dot, and the second is two dots. Talk about "advancing in a chunk"! That's even worse for statistic. All weak characters are exactly the same: they have one dot in Strength.</p><p>Again, 90% of the characters could be represented just as well, and faster, by a class based system.</p><p></p><p>Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying: Random character creation = bad. At least the new D&D has point buy. That said, the system works. But again, 90% - make that 99% in WHFRP case - of the characters could be represented just as well, and faster, with a class based system.</p><p></p><p>Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0: Has the same flaws and merits of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying, except that it's easier to implement a point buy. Plus, there are more than a few characters that can't be represented, because noone can ever have two different exclusive skills, but that's not a big deal.</p><p>Call of Cthulhu / Stormbringer: Random advancement? Be serious... it isn't even realistic, since you can be shooting a lot in three adventures straight and not advance in pistols at all, if you are a bit unlucky. Also... random character generation = bad.</p><p></p><p>I've played many other systems, but those are the most famous ones. Some are good, some are bad, but I haven't seen a single setting that couldn't be done just as well with a class-based system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zappo, post: 61061, member: 633"] I have played a ton of games - here are my impressions: GURPS: It is too complex and it has its share of severe quirks. Yeah, you can represent some characters that can't be correctly represented in a class-based system. But in the remaining 90% of the cases, players are making characters that an appropriate class-based system could represent. However, in [i]all[/i] cases, it will take you a couple of hours to write the character sheet, unless you are a real pro and know all the infinite advantages/disadvantages and skills. Incidentally, a couple of hours is less or more the time it takes to write a custom class for D&D that is decently balanced and represents that weird character concept that player just came up with. The good part of GURPS is that you can really represent most characters you can think of (well, except for a Raistlin, that is), but it is done in a very inefficient way, from the complexity point of view. Star Wars d6: OMG, that's got to be the ugliest system I've ever played. There are a helluva lot similar skills, but if you are a master in one, it has no influence on the others. This wouldn't be so bad, if not for the fact that the skills are vital. So, to be a good pilot you must raise a half dozen skills, while to be a fighter you only need two (shoot and dodge). And to be a Jedi and do all the incredible stuff a Jedi can do, it's just three skills, less if you only want certain powers. Since they cost the same, it means that when the fighter of the group is a real badass, and the Jedi even more, you will still be just an average pilot. Good points? Can't think any, really. Storyteller (White Wolf): This is a good one, but it has its flaws. First of all, what you can actually do with a skill doesn't match what's in the skill description. Five dots should make you the king of the world in a given skill, but in practice that's hardly true. Then, five levels for a skill are too little. There's sooo much between "trained for a week" and "average professional"... but in Storyteller, the first is one dot, and the second is two dots. Talk about "advancing in a chunk"! That's even worse for statistic. All weak characters are exactly the same: they have one dot in Strength. Again, 90% of the characters could be represented just as well, and faster, by a class based system. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying: Random character creation = bad. At least the new D&D has point buy. That said, the system works. But again, 90% - make that 99% in WHFRP case - of the characters could be represented just as well, and faster, with a class based system. Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0: Has the same flaws and merits of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying, except that it's easier to implement a point buy. Plus, there are more than a few characters that can't be represented, because noone can ever have two different exclusive skills, but that's not a big deal. Call of Cthulhu / Stormbringer: Random advancement? Be serious... it isn't even realistic, since you can be shooting a lot in three adventures straight and not advance in pistols at all, if you are a bit unlucky. Also... random character generation = bad. I've played many other systems, but those are the most famous ones. Some are good, some are bad, but I haven't seen a single setting that couldn't be done just as well with a class-based system. [/QUOTE]
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