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<blockquote data-quote="Skywalker" data-source="post: 61211" data-attributes="member: 1538">I think it comes from the fact that this is a D&amp;D site and D&amp;D is class/level system.&nbsp; I agree that the 2 should not be linked.&nbsp;By saying that both are &quot;middle ground&quot; class systems I believe you are reducing what I see as vast differences in design, philosophy and practice.In order to advance in skills in Cthulhu it is based on your usage.&nbsp; If you make a roll successfully you may increase though skills at lower levels increase faster than those at higher levels.&nbsp; The only class connection is that you buy skills based on points that are linked to a career system.&nbsp; Its a very tenuous link.&nbsp; It has a strong link to usage not class.&nbsp; &nbsp;Agree.&nbsp; However no system can withstand someone wishing to abuse it.&nbsp; However again this is a little off point from the class idea.&nbsp; Classless systems are no more prone to abuse than Class ones.&nbsp;OK again I agree but say again that no system can withstand someone wishing to abuse it.&nbsp; Cthulhu is a very well designed system and the system abuse use mentioned by you has little impact on play compared to other possible abuses in games.&nbsp; D&amp;D has much greater opportunity for abuse in my humble opinion.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Point made.&nbsp; I'll rephrase.&nbsp; Class based systems tend to require the player to take into account Meta-Game considerations as classes themselves are a game construct.&nbsp; The example given was how in a class based system a concept struggled to be supported as it failed to fall within the defined classes.&nbsp; In a classless system such considerations would not arise as often.&nbsp; BTW I did not invoke the example.&nbsp;Agree to an extent as that is one thing I like about classes too.&nbsp; However classless systems can also be balanced.&nbsp; My observation is that in a class system the need to tinker with classes to fit concepts can arise if the classes are two prescriptive. &nbsp;Actually in my first reply I did set out that:a) I recognise that there is a spectrum of classes,b) Class systems can be as good as classless systems,c) I prefer having a class system as they provide a great game aid.However I went on to explain that the prescriptions in D&amp;D classes are greater than found in other class systems such as Cthulhu and others.&nbsp; I am not making a general attack on class systems but merely criticising D&amp;D on the criteria that I set out.If you disagree with that and have another critieria that puts Cthulhu and D&amp;D on the same ground then I don't think we will ever agree.&nbsp; I call its quits - work calls - thanks its been fun <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Skywalker, post: 61211, member: 1538"] I think it comes from the fact that this is a D&D site and D&D is class/level system. I agree that the 2 should not be linked. By saying that both are "middle ground" class systems I believe you are reducing what I see as vast differences in design, philosophy and practice. In order to advance in skills in Cthulhu it is based on your usage. If you make a roll successfully you may increase though skills at lower levels increase faster than those at higher levels. The only class connection is that you buy skills based on points that are linked to a career system. Its a very tenuous link. It has a strong link to usage not class. Agree. However no system can withstand someone wishing to abuse it. However again this is a little off point from the class idea. Classless systems are no more prone to abuse than Class ones. OK again I agree but say again that no system can withstand someone wishing to abuse it. Cthulhu is a very well designed system and the system abuse use mentioned by you has little impact on play compared to other possible abuses in games. D&D has much greater opportunity for abuse in my humble opinion. Point made. I'll rephrase. Class based systems tend to require the player to take into account Meta-Game considerations as classes themselves are a game construct. The example given was how in a class based system a concept struggled to be supported as it failed to fall within the defined classes. In a classless system such considerations would not arise as often. BTW I did not invoke the example. Agree to an extent as that is one thing I like about classes too. However classless systems can also be balanced. My observation is that in a class system the need to tinker with classes to fit concepts can arise if the classes are two prescriptive. Actually in my first reply I did set out that: a) I recognise that there is a spectrum of classes, b) Class systems can be as good as classless systems, c) I prefer having a class system as they provide a great game aid. However I went on to explain that the prescriptions in D&D classes are greater than found in other class systems such as Cthulhu and others. I am not making a general attack on class systems but merely criticising D&D on the criteria that I set out. If you disagree with that and have another critieria that puts Cthulhu and D&D on the same ground then I don't think we will ever agree. I call its quits - work calls - thanks its been fun :) [/QUOTE]

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