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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 8835420" data-attributes="member: 7026594">I agree with a lot of the prior discussion that it comes down to a combination of player expectations and rules context.&nbsp; In 1974 OD&amp;D the bonuses available were minimal and scores didn't matter much.&nbsp; But as soon as Supplement I: Greyhawk came out Fighters were REALLY hoping for that 18 Strength...B/X and BECMI had moderate effects from ability scores, and they had you roll 3d6 down the line, but they also allowed point-swapping to boost your Prime Requisite.&nbsp; AD&amp;D made you need scores of between 13 to 16 to get any bonus, and made big bonuses available at the top of the scale.&nbsp; No wonder that Gygax advises in the 1978 PH that a character probably needs at least two scores of 15 to be viable.&nbsp; And in the DMG officially makes &quot;4d6 drop lowest arrange to taste&quot; the primary method, while also offering others more or less generous (and even more generous options in Unearthed Arcana in 1985).&nbsp; For the record, this is exactly Method I from AD&amp;D, per the 1979 DMG.&nbsp; It's surprising how consistent a lot of editions are with what Gygax advocated in 1E, as far as high stats.&nbsp; 2nd ed was a weird aberration in again offering 6 x 3d6 as the default method, more like OD&amp;D.Certainly fun.&nbsp; I like this idea.&nbsp; Incentivizing the randomness.Right now my favorite luck-mitigator for old school stat generation is the mirror approach.&nbsp; Use B/X or 3E+ stat mods.&nbsp; Have the players roll 3d6 in order BUT allow them to &quot;flip&quot; or &quot;mirror&quot; the array.&nbsp; That is, subtract every score in order from 21, so every high score becomes low and vice-versa.&nbsp; This way average characters still appear, and if a character has overall low scores the player can just flip the numbers and have high stats.&nbsp; On the other hand, if they have a suboptimal set of stats overall but a high score in the prime req for the class the player wants, they can keep the original array.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 8835420, member: 7026594"] I agree with a lot of the prior discussion that it comes down to a combination of player expectations and rules context. In 1974 OD&D the bonuses available were minimal and scores didn't matter much. But as soon as Supplement I: Greyhawk came out Fighters were REALLY hoping for that 18 Strength... B/X and BECMI had moderate effects from ability scores, and they had you roll 3d6 down the line, but they also allowed point-swapping to boost your Prime Requisite. AD&D made you need scores of between 13 to 16 to get any bonus, and made big bonuses available at the top of the scale. No wonder that Gygax advises in the 1978 PH that a character probably needs at least two scores of 15 to be viable. And in the DMG officially makes "4d6 drop lowest arrange to taste" the primary method, while also offering others more or less generous (and even more generous options in Unearthed Arcana in 1985). For the record, this is exactly Method I from AD&D, per the 1979 DMG. It's surprising how consistent a lot of editions are with what Gygax advocated in 1E, as far as high stats. 2nd ed was a weird aberration in again offering 6 x 3d6 as the default method, more like OD&D. Certainly fun. I like this idea. Incentivizing the randomness. Right now my favorite luck-mitigator for old school stat generation is the mirror approach. Use B/X or 3E+ stat mods. Have the players roll 3d6 in order BUT allow them to "flip" or "mirror" the array. That is, subtract every score in order from 21, so every high score becomes low and vice-versa. This way average characters still appear, and if a character has overall low scores the player can just flip the numbers and have high stats. On the other hand, if they have a suboptimal set of stats overall but a high score in the prime req for the class the player wants, they can keep the original array. [/QUOTE]

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