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<blockquote data-quote="3catcircus" data-source="post: 6229070" data-attributes="member: 16077"><p>The issue, though, is that many D&D players who have a negative view of FR because of the novels have likely never been in a position of playing in a FR campaign that <em>didn't</em> view the novels as canon - all we ever hear from such detractors is they hate FR because of all the high-level NPCs running around lording it over the PCs. There is no giant metaplot in FR, merely a bunch of different unconnected things happening in different novels. If you never read any of the novels, you'd never be exposed to the exploits of such NPCs unless the DM chose to include them in his or her campaign. The entry in the 3e FRCS for Shadowdale only states that there is an important site called Elminster's Tower and that he is likely the most powerful mortal in Faerun who is a recluse. Ok - powerful how? Unless you look at his stats (in a different location in the book) and choose to use them as-is, that is up to you, the DM, to decide. You can go the route of the novels, or maybe he is simply an oligarch... Or maybe you just focus on the part about him being a recluse in which case he never makes an appearance at all. This is much different than the metaplot in the TORG RPG or the Shadowforce Archer campaign for SPYCRAFT which was purposely engineered for the RPG - in the case of TORG, the metaplot was actually shaped by the results of home campaigns reporting the results of their exploits in each of the published adventures and they specifically delineated "these metaplot points are facts, these OTHER metaplot points are rumors throughout a series of metaplot communiques and several campaign setting updates.</p><p></p><p>You can be sure if there was as large a library of Greyhawk novels, there would be Greyhawk detractors at a similar rate because Gord the Rogue or Robilar or Mordenkainen are lording it over the PCs - looking at the Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk adventure, Mordenkainen's description reads very similarly to Elminster - "...one of the most powerful wizards to walk the Oerth..." Heck - all of the "named" core D&D spells are due to these Greyhawk NPCs - Mordenkainen's Sword, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Bigby's Grasping Hand, Tenser's Floating Disk, etc. </p><p></p><p>That there may or may not be stats for powerful NPCs or that NPCs are doing one thing or another should be irrelevant to players because that information is intended for the DMs eyes only unless and until the DM chooses to involve the NPCs in his campaign. The *only* time I ever involved Elminster in any of my FR campaigns, I made him purposely MIA and just a "historian in this small village a week's travel away." and I've never involved Drizzt.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="3catcircus, post: 6229070, member: 16077"] The issue, though, is that many D&D players who have a negative view of FR because of the novels have likely never been in a position of playing in a FR campaign that [I]didn't[/I] view the novels as canon - all we ever hear from such detractors is they hate FR because of all the high-level NPCs running around lording it over the PCs. There is no giant metaplot in FR, merely a bunch of different unconnected things happening in different novels. If you never read any of the novels, you'd never be exposed to the exploits of such NPCs unless the DM chose to include them in his or her campaign. The entry in the 3e FRCS for Shadowdale only states that there is an important site called Elminster's Tower and that he is likely the most powerful mortal in Faerun who is a recluse. Ok - powerful how? Unless you look at his stats (in a different location in the book) and choose to use them as-is, that is up to you, the DM, to decide. You can go the route of the novels, or maybe he is simply an oligarch... Or maybe you just focus on the part about him being a recluse in which case he never makes an appearance at all. This is much different than the metaplot in the TORG RPG or the Shadowforce Archer campaign for SPYCRAFT which was purposely engineered for the RPG - in the case of TORG, the metaplot was actually shaped by the results of home campaigns reporting the results of their exploits in each of the published adventures and they specifically delineated "these metaplot points are facts, these OTHER metaplot points are rumors throughout a series of metaplot communiques and several campaign setting updates. You can be sure if there was as large a library of Greyhawk novels, there would be Greyhawk detractors at a similar rate because Gord the Rogue or Robilar or Mordenkainen are lording it over the PCs - looking at the Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk adventure, Mordenkainen's description reads very similarly to Elminster - "...one of the most powerful wizards to walk the Oerth..." Heck - all of the "named" core D&D spells are due to these Greyhawk NPCs - Mordenkainen's Sword, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Bigby's Grasping Hand, Tenser's Floating Disk, etc. That there may or may not be stats for powerful NPCs or that NPCs are doing one thing or another should be irrelevant to players because that information is intended for the DMs eyes only unless and until the DM chooses to involve the NPCs in his campaign. The *only* time I ever involved Elminster in any of my FR campaigns, I made him purposely MIA and just a "historian in this small village a week's travel away." and I've never involved Drizzt. [/QUOTE]
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