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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Trainz" data-source="post: 895449" data-attributes="member: 2122">I understand your point. And it is quite valid. I, too, improvise most role-playing situations. I don't need no charts for that.I will try to demonstrate how and when rules and charts become important for certain social situations.Let's take for example a group of PC's that want to get into a city after curfew. The city guard says that they cannot enter after dark. End of story.The players will sometimes be frustrated by such a decision. It makes the gaming world irrealistic. In the real-world, there is always a chance that you might convince someone. I want my players to feel like the city guard could have said yes, not based on a DM's whim. Basing an NPC's decision on a die roll makes him a separate entity from the DM. Hence, he feels more real. Hence, the Diplomacy skill check.There was something written in one of the 2nd Ed. books (I don't recall which one):"Never say no, determine difficulty". That is one of the staples of my DM'ing.Now, let's see how that can enhance a flirting encounter:As your previous example, let's say a PC flirts with a serving girl. Me (DM), I reply:"Sure, Rathnor, the serving wench is all yours.".So the player thinks, great, my character is getting some. Does the player feels his character has accomplished something ? Nope. He just feels the DM winged it, when the player wanted to feel like he succeeded at something. Enter the seduction roll. Your character might be charming enough, he might not. If he does get rejected, it is not because the DM Said So, but because his character wasn't charming enough. The focus his on his character, not on the DM's decision.Now, what would be VERY wrong, is if the DM said:"Ok, the party enters the Drunken Harpy. Everyone, seduction rolls", roll, check results."OK. Handsomar, Goodlooks, and Oowah, you're all getting some; Stinkor and Repulso, looks like it's bachelor night again for you guys. Shoulda put more points in that Shawing skill.".A flirt encounter has to be role-played. Just like a diplomacy, bluff, or any social skill check has to. I do not let the players roll a check if they didn't role-play. If they role-play sufficiently, I let them roll. With bonuses or penalties depending on their eloquence, and on how true to their character they role-played.That goes without saying, and I'm sure that most if not all on this board do not resume such an encounter to a single die roll. It is quite exquisite to role-play a social encounter. It just feels more rewarding when the final outcome is sometimes determined by the PC's skill, not the DM's whim.</blockquote>

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