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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mythago" data-source="post: 6205575" data-attributes="member: 3019">billd91 said it more concisely and wisely than I would have.Celebrim, the solution is to talk about the problem, and both as individuals and as a community, work to solve the problem. That is exactly what we're doing here. And as practical action, that means, as billd91 notes, that the "sympathetic" and "non-sexist" members of the group need to tell the Self-Appointed Guardian to knock it off when he takes it upon himself to get in the face of a new female player, instead of quietly hoping that she can pull a nerd version of a Karate Kid-style finishing move to send him packing forever. It means that a public convention need to have policies and procedures in place to deal with people who for whatever reason are harassing or "hazing" others - because, you know, if the organizers of a con really wanted some kind of hazing procedure in place for attendees, they'd probably have one, instead of expecting random people to appoint themselves that function. It also means, as gamers, being clear that what we care about is whether you want to love this hobby right along with us, and not whether you pee sitting down or go to every Gen Con or own the original edition of Chainmail.Celebrim, you keep bursting into these angry Grand Guignol rants about "contrition" and "diversity" and "sensitivity" and calling for rallies and repeately attributing arguments to people that they have never actually made. This is strawmanning. I get the impression that you are not doing so as a deliberate rhetorical tactic, but because you have very strong feels on the subject of sexism in general, but you may wish to consider that it detracts from your position. I mean, imagine how much consideration you would give to somebody who demanded "Clearly, you think the solution is for girl gamers to politely beg for permission to game after cheerfully meeting whatever Neckbeard Trivia Tests any dude wants to throw their way"? Not much, I'm guessing (nor should you) - so why expect that others will give much consideration to your arguments cast in the same emotional, accusatory mode?As a side note: before you start on a grand lecture about How the World Works, you might want to consider that other people, too, live in the world, and may have some experience - perhaps even more than you yourself! - on dealing with harassment, or being the a member of minority X in a group of Ys, or what does and doesn't work to handle a hostile person whose goal is to put you down and keep you out. And perhaps, in the context of the discussion, that longtime female gamers might have just a bit more experience than you about the Fake Geek Girl issue and what does and doesn't work to address it.</blockquote>

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