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Sexism in Table-Top Gaming: My Thoughts On It, and What We Can Do About It
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6206062" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>What?? No body is being allowed anything here. No advice here can prevent a person from being 'emotionally abused'. If someone makes some one else uncomfortable, even intensely uncomfortable, no advice can retroactively stop what has already occurred. In this case the 'emotional abuse' in question is attack the identity of the person as a member of the social group, some variation presumably on, "You're not a real gamer, you're a girl!" Nothing anyone could advice to the person who has been targeted in such a manner can prevent that from having happened. What advice we must give must be in how to respond to that.</p><p></p><p>My advice is:</p><p></p><p>a) Wear your asbestos armor. Words can hurt, I should know, but at some point you have to develop 'damage resistance' to insensitivity, jerkiness, and teasing. I don't pretend that is easy, but it is necessary. Fundamentally, you should not be letting anyone, and certainly not strangers, dictate to you your feelings or any sense of self-worth.</p><p>b) Put as good of face on it as you can. It doesn't do to show you've been hurt, this just opens you up for additional bullying. Also, being polite and good natured adds to your sympathy. Yes, this often means treating people better than they deserve, but that isn't always a bad thing either.</p><p>c) Turn it back on them. Answer the implicit and explicit challenge. Some people are just jerks and aren't going to let it go, but many didn't mean to be jerks and many are willing to change their impression of you if you engage them. And like it or not, some of this is just biology. Deal with it on that level. Women in particular often inadvertently signal back low status and submissive behavior - distress cries, distress postures, losing self-control, threat displays, etc. You'd be amazed at what signaling back high status by showing you aren't distressed can accomplish at times. And I've seen women who are good at this, unconsciously imitating the demeanor of a high status male. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Certainly. And this is actually a major source of discussion within geekdom. Should we as people who in many cases were ostracized for failing to meet social norms, be understanding and accepting of everyone's antisocial behavior, and if not what do we do about it? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have the sense that emotional abuse is emotional abuse. I think it unfair to say that people can't empathize with other people's pain, and if it were true that everyone's pain was so individual to them that no one else could understand it then think what a terrible thing you are saying.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I'm speaking from experience here. I have had to socially integrate with a lot of different groups, many of which I was an obvious outsider in - from moving overseas to a 99% black nation, to moving back to rural America as a petwa speaking cultural foreigner, to working in construction as a college educated egghead, to working in academia as someone who is pretty far from the normal upper middle class progressive mold. Fundamentally, this sort of hazing occurs everywhere and in every group, and fundamentally I think it is simply attempts to establish social trust.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That we ought to do better I can hardly and won't deny. That we have left our poo-flinging monkey biology far behind I completely deny. Human social dynamics are still at a very real level those of simian tribal nomadic hunter gatherers. Any one with a biology background that watches a high school cafeteria or an episode of Survivor can immediately see that. For example, have you noticed that in a business environment, the highest status male almost always gives way to the lower status males but only after he 'signals' or 'allows' them to pass first. This is classic herd dominance behavior. It isn't meant as that and we've actually progressed culturally to achieve that point - in less civilized places you still see much more overt dominance/subservience behavior demanded as a cultural norm.</p><p></p><p>Do I like it? As a borderline autistic that instinctual does everything wrong, I can assure you I don't like it in the least. But I've learned how to deal with it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6206062, member: 4937"] What?? No body is being allowed anything here. No advice here can prevent a person from being 'emotionally abused'. If someone makes some one else uncomfortable, even intensely uncomfortable, no advice can retroactively stop what has already occurred. In this case the 'emotional abuse' in question is attack the identity of the person as a member of the social group, some variation presumably on, "You're not a real gamer, you're a girl!" Nothing anyone could advice to the person who has been targeted in such a manner can prevent that from having happened. What advice we must give must be in how to respond to that. My advice is: a) Wear your asbestos armor. Words can hurt, I should know, but at some point you have to develop 'damage resistance' to insensitivity, jerkiness, and teasing. I don't pretend that is easy, but it is necessary. Fundamentally, you should not be letting anyone, and certainly not strangers, dictate to you your feelings or any sense of self-worth. b) Put as good of face on it as you can. It doesn't do to show you've been hurt, this just opens you up for additional bullying. Also, being polite and good natured adds to your sympathy. Yes, this often means treating people better than they deserve, but that isn't always a bad thing either. c) Turn it back on them. Answer the implicit and explicit challenge. Some people are just jerks and aren't going to let it go, but many didn't mean to be jerks and many are willing to change their impression of you if you engage them. And like it or not, some of this is just biology. Deal with it on that level. Women in particular often inadvertently signal back low status and submissive behavior - distress cries, distress postures, losing self-control, threat displays, etc. You'd be amazed at what signaling back high status by showing you aren't distressed can accomplish at times. And I've seen women who are good at this, unconsciously imitating the demeanor of a high status male. Certainly. And this is actually a major source of discussion within geekdom. Should we as people who in many cases were ostracized for failing to meet social norms, be understanding and accepting of everyone's antisocial behavior, and if not what do we do about it? I have the sense that emotional abuse is emotional abuse. I think it unfair to say that people can't empathize with other people's pain, and if it were true that everyone's pain was so individual to them that no one else could understand it then think what a terrible thing you are saying. I'm speaking from experience here. I have had to socially integrate with a lot of different groups, many of which I was an obvious outsider in - from moving overseas to a 99% black nation, to moving back to rural America as a petwa speaking cultural foreigner, to working in construction as a college educated egghead, to working in academia as someone who is pretty far from the normal upper middle class progressive mold. Fundamentally, this sort of hazing occurs everywhere and in every group, and fundamentally I think it is simply attempts to establish social trust. That we ought to do better I can hardly and won't deny. That we have left our poo-flinging monkey biology far behind I completely deny. Human social dynamics are still at a very real level those of simian tribal nomadic hunter gatherers. Any one with a biology background that watches a high school cafeteria or an episode of Survivor can immediately see that. For example, have you noticed that in a business environment, the highest status male almost always gives way to the lower status males but only after he 'signals' or 'allows' them to pass first. This is classic herd dominance behavior. It isn't meant as that and we've actually progressed culturally to achieve that point - in less civilized places you still see much more overt dominance/subservience behavior demanded as a cultural norm. Do I like it? As a borderline autistic that instinctual does everything wrong, I can assure you I don't like it in the least. But I've learned how to deal with it. [/QUOTE]
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