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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6207290" data-attributes="member: 4937">Where in D&amp;D's war gaming roots do female characters appear at all? But I'm afraid you've entirely missed the point by even asking this question at all.&nbsp; Even without strength caps, the fact that the original game focuses its system as it does on your ability to kick butt means that it has an inherently male centric point of view.&nbsp; It is the sort of system you'd expect a male wargaming nerd from the late 1960's to create.&nbsp; The real distinctions in system would be to compare the tactical wargame AD&amp;D is to the sort of more modern systems that don't privilege violence as the foremost skill or combat as the foremost means of conflict resolution or even violent conflict as the foremost sort of conflict. Really?&nbsp; You really think that strength caps were having a chilling effect on getting male players to accept female players as equals?&nbsp; First of all, none of the people I've ever gamed with ever had a problem accepting female players as equals.&nbsp; They would have been thrilled to have a girl interested in gaming.&nbsp; Back in junior high or high school some of them would have flirted disastrously as befitting poorly socialized guys with 3 charisma scores but there certainly wouldn't have been the assumption that girls couldn't play.&nbsp; Second of all, it is not my sense that the reason in 1982 or 1985 the only girls I knew that played were younger sisters of older brothers that played was because of the chilling effect of strength caps on their readiness to game.&nbsp;&nbsp; No my sense is that there were very few women (or girls, as my peers would have been back then) comfortable with being deemed nerds, hanging out with nerds, and generally threatening their status amongst 'normals' by doing something as geeky and uncool as play D&amp;D.&nbsp; But we would have loved to get them in the game if they had shown interest and we would have all gladly tossed out the strength cap rules if we at all thought that was what was keeping 'girls' away from our gaming table.&nbsp; I don't recall ever remembering it mentioned by any woman then, however salient it might seem now.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6207290, member: 4937"] Where in D&D's war gaming roots do female characters appear at all? But I'm afraid you've entirely missed the point by even asking this question at all. Even without strength caps, the fact that the original game focuses its system as it does on your ability to kick butt means that it has an inherently male centric point of view. It is the sort of system you'd expect a male wargaming nerd from the late 1960's to create. The real distinctions in system would be to compare the tactical wargame AD&D is to the sort of more modern systems that don't privilege violence as the foremost skill or combat as the foremost means of conflict resolution or even violent conflict as the foremost sort of conflict. Really? You really think that strength caps were having a chilling effect on getting male players to accept female players as equals? First of all, none of the people I've ever gamed with ever had a problem accepting female players as equals. They would have been thrilled to have a girl interested in gaming. Back in junior high or high school some of them would have flirted disastrously as befitting poorly socialized guys with 3 charisma scores but there certainly wouldn't have been the assumption that girls couldn't play. Second of all, it is not my sense that the reason in 1982 or 1985 the only girls I knew that played were younger sisters of older brothers that played was because of the chilling effect of strength caps on their readiness to game. No my sense is that there were very few women (or girls, as my peers would have been back then) comfortable with being deemed nerds, hanging out with nerds, and generally threatening their status amongst 'normals' by doing something as geeky and uncool as play D&D. But we would have loved to get them in the game if they had shown interest and we would have all gladly tossed out the strength cap rules if we at all thought that was what was keeping 'girls' away from our gaming table. I don't recall ever remembering it mentioned by any woman then, however salient it might seem now. [/QUOTE]

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