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Sexism in Table-Top Gaming: My Thoughts On It, and What We Can Do About It
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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 6209452" data-attributes="member: 9789"><p>OP: Great thread. Definitely something that needs more discussion. Thanks for starting it. Sorry you basically have to go on the defensive for every position you're taking.</p><p></p><p>I haven't really gotten into this thread, but some of the more recent post discussions are actually handled pretty well by the OP. Here are some examples:</p><p>- Bigotry is bad. It doesn't matter if "reverse bigotry" "would" have happened or not; that doesn't justify bigotry.</p><p>- The reason why you cannot compare racism against elves to racism against black people is because elves don't exist. You can certainly explore why racism against elves might be bad in a game, but that doesn't mean that it somehow justifies additional racism against actual people who do exist. Also see: sexism.</p><p>- Men and women haven't always been considered equal throughout history. That doesn't justify sexism now. History is full of really bad mistakes. We're talking about now. Even fantasy games set in a historical world do not get a pass because the people who are playing those games are living now, and the feelings they have are being felt now.</p><p></p><p>A lot of arguments against the OP tend to boil down to "slippery slope" accusations:</p><p>"Why can't I include rape when I include spiders? I can't know if you're agoraphobic any more than I know if you're sensitive to rape!"</p><p>"If you start telling people they can't include X in their games, that's restricting their free speech!" (The idea being that asking someone not to say something will eventually lead to them not being able to say it.)</p><p></p><p>These are false premises. The first example (while a little over-the-top) ignores the fact that pretty much anyone can tell the social, sub-textual, and reasonable difference between those two extremes. It's not fair to try to justify an easily recognizably heinous example with an easily recognizably softer one. The second example is exactly the same, although it seems different: the idea that anyone will actually censor your right to say something is absurd. It's about realizing that speech has consequences, not that speech is (or would ever be) restricted. To put that another way: it's not about what you CAN or CANNOT do; it's about what you SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 6209452, member: 9789"] OP: Great thread. Definitely something that needs more discussion. Thanks for starting it. Sorry you basically have to go on the defensive for every position you're taking. I haven't really gotten into this thread, but some of the more recent post discussions are actually handled pretty well by the OP. Here are some examples: - Bigotry is bad. It doesn't matter if "reverse bigotry" "would" have happened or not; that doesn't justify bigotry. - The reason why you cannot compare racism against elves to racism against black people is because elves don't exist. You can certainly explore why racism against elves might be bad in a game, but that doesn't mean that it somehow justifies additional racism against actual people who do exist. Also see: sexism. - Men and women haven't always been considered equal throughout history. That doesn't justify sexism now. History is full of really bad mistakes. We're talking about now. Even fantasy games set in a historical world do not get a pass because the people who are playing those games are living now, and the feelings they have are being felt now. A lot of arguments against the OP tend to boil down to "slippery slope" accusations: "Why can't I include rape when I include spiders? I can't know if you're agoraphobic any more than I know if you're sensitive to rape!" "If you start telling people they can't include X in their games, that's restricting their free speech!" (The idea being that asking someone not to say something will eventually lead to them not being able to say it.) These are false premises. The first example (while a little over-the-top) ignores the fact that pretty much anyone can tell the social, sub-textual, and reasonable difference between those two extremes. It's not fair to try to justify an easily recognizably heinous example with an easily recognizably softer one. The second example is exactly the same, although it seems different: the idea that anyone will actually censor your right to say something is absurd. It's about realizing that speech has consequences, not that speech is (or would ever be) restricted. To put that another way: it's not about what you CAN or CANNOT do; it's about what you SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do. [/QUOTE]
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