Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Beholder Bob" data-source="post: 1522034" data-attributes="member: 12866">What logic do you use to decide if the caster believes or not?&nbsp; You could just as easily argue that illusions require the caster to concentrate on and believe in the item/creature the illusion represents - that the spell is an act of belief.&nbsp; If illusions are automatically disbelieved in, why the threat from phantasmal killer to the caster (if turned against him w helm o' telepathy)?The phantom steed should lose HP (it isn't as real) - but its ability to move over terrain types shouldn't be impacted but its carry capacity should be if not believed in (illusionary claws cut less and so the horse should support less when its rider doesn’t believe).&nbsp; Creating an obscurement (fog) should still function fine (it still blocks the view, even if not believed in - like a solid image hologram) - but solid fog would not prevent movement very well if not believed in.&nbsp; Basically - if physically interaction occurs - disbelief effects it.&nbsp; So Secure Shelter could be breached by creatures that do not believe in it - and sleep conditions are not grand if you disbelieve.&quot;Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature can make a Will save to recognize its true nature.&quot;&nbsp; Note the use of the word 'can'.&nbsp; I take this as an option - you may choose to believe and not make a save.Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.This leads me to believe that using unseen servant suffers from a reduction in lifting capacity automatically.B<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious&nbsp; &nbsp; :]" data-shortname=":]" />B</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Beholder Bob, post: 1522034, member: 12866"] What logic do you use to decide if the caster believes or not? You could just as easily argue that illusions require the caster to concentrate on and believe in the item/creature the illusion represents - that the spell is an act of belief. If illusions are automatically disbelieved in, why the threat from phantasmal killer to the caster (if turned against him w helm o' telepathy)? The phantom steed should lose HP (it isn't as real) - but its ability to move over terrain types shouldn't be impacted but its carry capacity should be if not believed in (illusionary claws cut less and so the horse should support less when its rider doesn’t believe). Creating an obscurement (fog) should still function fine (it still blocks the view, even if not believed in - like a solid image hologram) - but solid fog would not prevent movement very well if not believed in. Basically - if physically interaction occurs - disbelief effects it. So Secure Shelter could be breached by creatures that do not believe in it - and sleep conditions are not grand if you disbelieve. "Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature [U]can[/U] make a Will save to recognize its true nature." Note the use of the word 'can'. I take this as an option - you may choose to believe and not make a save. Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell. This leads me to believe that using unseen servant suffers from a reduction in lifting capacity automatically. [COLOR=Red]B:]B[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]

Verification