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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tzarevitch" data-source="post: 1527296" data-attributes="member: 1792">I disagree. As I look at the 3.5 SRD, for Shadow Evocation, "Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers they have NO EFFECT." (Emphasis added.) "Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell." Igniting oil does not cause the oil to  "take damage", it causes it to catch on fire. That is a special condition. The flaming oil has the capacity to inflict damage in and of itself to other creatures or objects but it does not take damage from the spell therefore the oil is not affected. Hmm. They seem to have fixed some of the problems with the spell in 3.5 when I wasn't looking. Actually, now that I look at the 3.5 version of the spell it does not say that 20% is real, it only says that it does 20% of the damage. That change in wording means a lot because it doesn't leave that question of what is the 80% that is "not real"?I should've read the 3.5 version more closely. They seem to have fixed some of the horrible problems with the Shadow Magic spells by removing the words to the effect of __% real and changed them to "___% effective" or "___ likely to occur".   That removes the stupid problem of "real vs. not real" that the old version had. Now it is all "real" it is only that it is __% as powerful in general as the imitated spell. This part of these spells is still problematic. If a mechanical trap (an object) swings a sword (also an object) at your armor it automatically disbelieves the effect because it is an object and therefore ignores it completely. Yet if I swing the same sword (an object) somehow the fact that I can think means that I somehow can make the spell real for a weapon that has no ability to think and should automatically be able to ignore it. That part of the Shadow magic spells it still stupid. I must admit however, they seem to have fixed enough of the problems with these spells that I may actually permit them back into my game. Tzarevitch</blockquote>

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