Shadow Conjuration?

[DDK]

Has anyone had problems with this spell? It raises a helluva lot of questions IMO, like do undead have to save against it or do they automatically see it for what it is? Do you only make the will save once? What about the duration? Could you cast a spell like Phantom Steed?

Help would be muchly appreciated.

 

[durath]

some answers

Undead are not immune to shadow conjuration. Undead are only immune to illusionary phantasms and patterns in 3rd edition. Shadow conjuration is a shadow illusion. For a full description read the MM page 6 under the "undead" heading. For a full description of the various types of illusions see the PHB page 158 under the "Illusion" heading.

Yes you only make the will save to disbelieve the illusionary conjuration once. If you make that save you see it for what it is and the spell only has 20% effectiveness. Note that even if a creature fails the will save they still get the appropriate save of the emulated spell.

Duration would be the same as if you had cast the real spell.

Yes you could cast a spell like phantom steed or any other 3rd level or lower spell. If you want a phantom steed just voluntarily forego your saving throw and it will be completely real to you. Same for any of your allies.

 

[Thanee]

Actually you can't simply forego a save for your own illusions... you have a very obvious proof, that the illusion is just that.

Spells like Phantom Steed would simply work with their effect reduced to the percentage listed (i.e. 20% of speed and 20% of carrying capacity and so on), or if that kind of reduction makes no sense just have a 20% chance of success, having full effect then, or if it doesn't work, no effect at all. That's at least, how Greater Shadow Evocation handles this kind of spells.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pax]

Actually you can't simply forego a save for your own illusions... you have a very obvious proof, that the illusion is just that.

Spells like Phantom Steed would simply work with their effect reduced to the percentage listed (i.e. 20% of speed and 20% of carrying capacity and so on), or if that kind of reduction makes no sense just have a 20% chance of success, having full effect then, or if it doesn't work, no effect at all. That's at least, how Greater Shadow Evocation handles this kind of spells.

Bye
Thanee

You can ALWAYS voluntarily forgo a saving throw. Period.

 

[Thanee]

Well, but a character faced with incontrovertible proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. He automatically pierces the illusion.

You cannot believe your own illusions, that's just silly!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jens]

But to begin with, isn't it just as silly that whether you believes that a Fireball is real or not determines how badly you're burnt? Wrt Mount etc, I'd say you know it's shadowstuff, but that you also believe that it is stron enough to carry you. Or just look in the book and use the rule

Anyway, my mayn problem with the Shadow spells is is what exactly is meant when the description states that Shadow conjuration can mimic any "sorcerer or wizard conjuration spell of 3rd level or lower". Is that any spell that is in the PHB? Is it any spell the caster knows of or has seen? Is it any spell that exists in the campaign world? Or is it any spell that could ever be thought of in the campaign world?

The last reading is what seems most reasonable to me (why can't I use Shadow Conjuration to conjure a shadow sheep when I can conjure a shadow horse by emulating Mount? Why not be able to conjure a cloak if it is raining? Why can't I use Shadow Evocation to evoke a 10' diameter ball of shadow fire when I can evoke a 20' one by emulating Fireball?) ... but is also very flexible.

 

[Zhure]

Shades could be used to emulate Fabricate... that would take care of the whole "shadow cloak" and the like. Any of the Shadow Conjuration chain can be used to make Shadow Sheep (or at least something similar) by emulating Summon Monster X.

Greg

 

[Pax]

Well, but a character faced with incontrovertible proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. He automatically pierces the illusion.

You cannot believe your own illusions, that's just silly!

Bye
Thanee

Sure you can. Ever hear of mind over matter?

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Anyway, my mayn problem with the Shadow spells is is what exactly is meant when the description states that Shadow conjuration can mimic any "sorcerer or wizard conjuration spell of 3rd level or lower". Is that any spell that is in the PHB? Is it any spell the caster knows of or has seen? Is it any spell that exists in the campaign world? Or is it any spell that could ever be thought of in the campaign world?

That is entirely up to your DM.

Remember, the other advantage to this spell, is that it allows you to (sort of) cast Summon Monster spells as a Standard Action, instead of a Full-round Action.

 

[Christian]

You cannot believe your own illusions, that's just silly!

Heck, I do that every day!