Shadow Knight starting class

[Endov Usall]

I was going to spend today working on a Shadow Knight class for our Forgotten realms setting. If anyone has any Ideas on abilities for the class please post them here.

 

[JoeGKushner]

What type of Shadow Knight? Do you mean something like the Knight of the Shadows from Ravenloft? It's a new PrC in the new Arsenal book. (which so far kicks ass!)

 

[Endov Usall]

What type of Shadow Knight? Do you mean something like the Knight of the Shadows from Ravenloft? It's a new PrC in the new Arsenal book. (which so far kicks ass!)

I've been wanting a LE Paladin since 3ed was released but I don't want a PrC. I want a good and balanced stating class.

Basically I'm taking the paladin and rearanging his abilities.

ie: divine grace becomes unholy protection adding a bonus to the characters AC instead of his saves. I still havn't decided whether the ability should use CHA, CON or WIS

 

[Endov Usall]

bump

 

[Andor]

I'd say chr. His force of presence makes it hard for people to hit him. Don't forget the spiffy mount. Dark Knights are always riding about on either skeletons or nightmares.

I don't think I'd change the healing though it seems logical to turn in into a harm effect. Afterall there has to be some kind of reason people follow these guys, and it makes a nice twist as frankly everone and his kid brother will expect you to turn a paladins healing into damage dealing.

-Andor

 

[Richards]

My youngest son's newest PC is a human male fighter named Soriah Shadowknight. No mystical powers or anything; his backstory is that he was once a member of a group of knights and had pledged to protect a noblewoman put in his charge or die trying. Unfortunately, when she was attacked he was knocked unconscious during the fray, and now he is a self-imposed exile from his knightly group, on a quest to find the noblewoman (or her remains), so that he might regain his lost honor.

No real point to this post; I just thought it was cool there was a thread about Shadow Knights two weeks after he created his PC.

I'll let you get back to the real meat of the thread now.

Sorry for interrupting.

No, really.

Johnathan

 

[I'm A Banana]

What's wrong with using the Paladin, just turning everything evil?

E.G.: Detect Good instead of Detect Evil, Divine Grace just needs a rename ("Unholy Luck"), Lay on Hands does damage or cures undead, Divine Health needs a rename ("Taint Adaptation"), Aura of Courage could stay or be replaced with an Aura of Fear, Smite Evil becomes Smite Good, Remove Disease can be Cause Disease, speical mount uses the Blackguard's Fiendish Ally instead, etc.

The hardest part may be the spell list, but even those shouldn't be too hard. Something like:

FIRST LEVEL: Bane, Curse Water, Magic Weapon, Create Water, Inflict Light Wounds, Detect Poison, Detect Undead, Divine Favor, Endure Elements, Protection from Good, Read Magic, Resistance, Virtue, Doom

SECOND LEVEL: Quicken Poison (causes secondary damage instantly), Hold Person, Resist Elements, Undetectable Alignment, Pain Other (target takes half the damage you take)

THIRD LEVEL: Inflict Moderate Wounds, Conceal Lies (makes your lies completely undetectable), Dispel Magic, Greater Magic Weapon, Heal Fiendish Ally (as Heal Mount, but only on fiendish allies), Magic Circle against Good, Prayer, Blindness/Deafness

FOURTH LEVEL: Inflict Serious Wounds, Death Ward, Dispel Good, Freedom of Movement, Unholy Sword (as Holy Sword, but double damage vs. Good), Poison

If you're looking for an anti-paladin type, it ain't exactly difficult. The idea's been around as long as the idea for the Paladin.

I'm sure people have more complex or more varied takes on it, but this lets you be fairly rules-consistant and just pervert the paladin, so to speak.

 

[Tewligan]

Green Ronin's Secret College of Necromancy has a new core class called the death knight which is pretty much just an antipaladin, even down to getting an unholy steed at fifth level. He eventually casts some divine spells, has an unholy aura that spooks lesser creatures, yadda yadda. You should get this book - it's delightful.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

If you're looking for advice on your alternate divine grace ability, I'd say charisma. If you base it on con or wisdom, you reduce the number of stats that the class depends on. By basing the bonus on charisma you cut down on how effectively that ability can be leveraged without hurting the classes other abilities.

I have to say, though, a divine protection to AC would be much more useful than divine protection to saves. I don't think it would be well balanced. Any well constructed Shadowknight will be almost unhittable. (1st level 14 cha, 14 dex chain mail, large shield= AC 21; 4th level 16 cha, 12 dex, +1 fullplate, +1 shield=AC 26; 12th level 22 cha, 12 dex, +4 fullplate, +3 shield, Amulet of Natural Armor +3, Ring of Protection +3=AC 40). I expect that PCs will need 17+ to hit with their primary attacks at almost any level. If he takes a sorceror or wizard level and starts using Shield, things would get even uglier. And, even at high levels, there are a lot more physical attacks than saving throws. There's a reason why the paladin's saving throw bonus stacks with everything but the monk's wisdom bonus to AC won't stack with armor. . . .

BTW: shouldn't this be in House Rules?

I've been wanting a LE Paladin since 3ed was released but I don't want a PrC. I want a good and balanced stating class.

Basically I'm taking the paladin and rearanging his abilities.

ie: divine grace becomes unholy protection adding a bonus to the characters AC instead of his saves. I still havn't decided whether the ability should use CHA, CON or WIS

 

[Endov Usall]

I have to say, though, a divine protection to AC would be much more useful than divine protection to saves. I don't think it would be well balanced. Any well constructed Shadowknight will be almost unhittable. (1st level 14 cha, 14 dex chain mail, large shield= AC 21; 4th level 16 cha, 12 dex, +1 fullplate, +1 shield=AC 26; 12th level 22 cha, 12 dex, +4 fullplate, +3 shield, Amulet of Natural Armor +3, Ring of Protection +3=AC 40). I expect that PCs will need 17+ to hit with their primary attacks at almost any level. If he takes a sorceror or wizard level and starts using Shield, things would get even uglier. And, even at high levels, there are a lot more physical attacks than saving throws. There's a reason why the paladin's saving throw bonus stacks with everything but the monk's wisdom bonus to AC won't stack with armor.

In the campaign I play in we see 2 or 3 magic items every 8th session or so and with 9 players there's no way I'd ever be able to amp up the AC. I can see it getting out of control in a high powered campaign. My DM will have to agree with the class before it will get into play but seeing as my Paladin died Sunday night (nasty run in with avatar of Cyric) I have only till this Sunday to finish the class.