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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 1945176" data-attributes="member: 3424">Actually, by my definition, the ranger is not "simply hiding" either, but he is hiding in a way that true seeing does not automatically see through (as it is an Extraordinary ability)."Hiding" means any use (or attempted use) of the Hide skill. Some may equate "simply hiding" with "hiding", but I interpret it to mean the most basic use of the Hide skill, which any creature can do or attempt to do without special training. If you need to take levels in Shadowdancer or Ranger, or have a spell cast on you in order to attempt a Hide check, I do not define that to be "simply hiding".I did not want to go into detail on this, because it's going to get rather technical and pedantic, but since it has been brought up...While there are no actual laws for good and clear communication, there are some general guidelines. The guidelines that are relevant to this case are as follows:1. Every paragraph expresses a single main idea.2. The main idea is encapsulated in a single topic sentence.3. The topic sentence is usually at the beginning of the paragraph.4. The other sentences in the paragraph are supporting sentences that elaborate on the topic sentence.Have a look at the first sentence of the first paragraph of the description of true seeing: "You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are." That's a pretty powerful statement, and it gives the general intent of the spell, but it doesn't explain how this actually works in game terms. The remainder of the sentences in the paragraph elaborate on this and give further details:"The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet."We now have some specific examples of what the spell does. However, is this an exhaustive list? If the spell description had ended there, it would be. However, the spell description continues into an additional paragraph. The first sentence there states:"True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects."This is a paragraph on the limitations of true seeing, and the key limitation is that it does not penetrate solid objects. The remainder of the sentences in this paragraph elaborate on this idea:"It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use true seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with clairaudience/clairvoyance."Thus, we have two paragraphs, one containing the key idea of what true seeing does, "You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are." and elaborations on that idea, and one containing the key idea of what it does not do, "True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects." and elaborations on that idea.Taken together, my interpretation is that true seeing sees everything that is actually there unless it behind or obscured by some solid object, as it would be in the case of a creature hidden behind physical concealment, one wearing a mundane disguise, or a secret door constructed to look like the wall surrounding it.A further point to note is that most of the elaborations in the first paragraph show true seeing defeating magical means of hiding and disguise, while most of the elaborations in the second paragraph show true seeing foiled by mundane means. Hence, it implies (to me, at least) that true seeing generally sees through magic effects (such as Supernatural abilities) but not mundane effects (such as Extraordinary abilities).So, when I look at a Shadowdancer's ability to Hide in Plain Sight, it is stated that she is hiding without anything to hide behind. In addition, it is a magical (Supernatural) ability, which is a further count against it. I suppose it is possible that the ability actually conjures a solid object for the Shadowdancer to hide behind, but I don't see this fitting into the flavor of the Shadowdancer PrC. Perhaps this is a failure of imagination on my part.Others may, of course, interpret the spell differently and allow the Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Sight ability to foil true seeing.</blockquote>

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