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Shadowdark General Thread [+]
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<blockquote data-quote="Retros_x" data-source="post: 9716737" data-attributes="member: 7033171"><p>I was that other person in the other thread. I don't want to argue for argues sake, but when people actively misdescribe the game I like and tell its bad design, I can get heated, I'll admit that.</p><p></p><p>In the other thread it was claimed that a) combat is rigged against you from a math perspective b) the official adventures are hack n slay, but because the combat is too hard, its bad design. These were the main points why I focused too much on the avoiding combat part, as a contra point to these. Of course combat is fun and important in Shadowdark too. But its not a game like Diablo as it was compared too and I stand by the opinion that 5e is more similar to Diablo than Shadowdark, because running in a room and fight the monsters is the default approach for the majority of official 5e adventures, if not explicitly stated otherwise.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the best contrapoint or extension to my points were that combat is a failstate - but a desired one. If that makes sense. It doesn't mean you fail the game, but you failed other approaches. To come back to your spy/crack commando comparison I quoted above, which I think is a really good one: An elite commando squad will also try to avoid a fire fight, but they are equipped and trained to fight in one with the best means they can. In a movie about an elite commando squad we WANT to fail them at an attempt to arrest someone without a firefight, because we want the drama and action. I think this encapsulates at least how I play OSR/Shadowrun - we want to avoid a combat or at least run it to our terms, because it is deadly and dangerous, but it will happen and it will be fun.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Retros_x, post: 9716737, member: 7033171"] I was that other person in the other thread. I don't want to argue for argues sake, but when people actively misdescribe the game I like and tell its bad design, I can get heated, I'll admit that. In the other thread it was claimed that a) combat is rigged against you from a math perspective b) the official adventures are hack n slay, but because the combat is too hard, its bad design. These were the main points why I focused too much on the avoiding combat part, as a contra point to these. Of course combat is fun and important in Shadowdark too. But its not a game like Diablo as it was compared too and I stand by the opinion that 5e is more similar to Diablo than Shadowdark, because running in a room and fight the monsters is the default approach for the majority of official 5e adventures, if not explicitly stated otherwise. I think the best contrapoint or extension to my points were that combat is a failstate - but a desired one. If that makes sense. It doesn't mean you fail the game, but you failed other approaches. To come back to your spy/crack commando comparison I quoted above, which I think is a really good one: An elite commando squad will also try to avoid a fire fight, but they are equipped and trained to fight in one with the best means they can. In a movie about an elite commando squad we WANT to fail them at an attempt to arrest someone without a firefight, because we want the drama and action. I think this encapsulates at least how I play OSR/Shadowrun - we want to avoid a combat or at least run it to our terms, because it is deadly and dangerous, but it will happen and it will be fun. [/QUOTE]
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