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Shadowrun d20?
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<blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 2110838" data-attributes="member: 1757"><p>Better, yes. Now try explaining in plain English, or simple math, how changes to TNs above 6 (and that's generally where the changes go in SR: up) affect the probability of achieving X successes with Y dice when X and Y also can change, depending on the circumstnances. </p><p>Directly, yes, in the same way that load-bearing members made of stronger materials allow a structure to support more weight. Making a more precise statement as to what that relationship is, however, requires a lot of engineering experience and calculus chops. My point is merely that SR's system makes it very, very difficult to figure out on the fly what a character's chance of accomplishing X task given Y dice, Z number of required successes, p target number, and r mods (especially the mods!). The one-die-plus-applicable-mods structure of d20 makes doing this a snap, and does away with SR's probability structure, which is highly disjunctive due to the exploding dice roll rule. Note, for example, that a +3 to the TN has a vastly different effect on probability if the initial TN is 2, compared to if it is 5. Or the fact that 6 and 7, 12 and 13, etc. are equally easy results to roll. I am merely explaining why my players have issues with SR, not whether the system is "better" or "worse" than d20.</p><p>Actually, it does model success-based results in a more predictable and cleaner manner. But that's just IMHO...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ruleslawyer, post: 2110838, member: 1757"] Better, yes. Now try explaining in plain English, or simple math, how changes to TNs above 6 (and that's generally where the changes go in SR: up) affect the probability of achieving X successes with Y dice when X and Y also can change, depending on the circumstnances. Directly, yes, in the same way that load-bearing members made of stronger materials allow a structure to support more weight. Making a more precise statement as to what that relationship is, however, requires a lot of engineering experience and calculus chops. My point is merely that SR's system makes it very, very difficult to figure out on the fly what a character's chance of accomplishing X task given Y dice, Z number of required successes, p target number, and r mods (especially the mods!). The one-die-plus-applicable-mods structure of d20 makes doing this a snap, and does away with SR's probability structure, which is highly disjunctive due to the exploding dice roll rule. Note, for example, that a +3 to the TN has a vastly different effect on probability if the initial TN is 2, compared to if it is 5. Or the fact that 6 and 7, 12 and 13, etc. are equally easy results to roll. I am merely explaining why my players have issues with SR, not whether the system is "better" or "worse" than d20. Actually, it does model success-based results in a more predictable and cleaner manner. But that's just IMHO... [/QUOTE]
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