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Message: <blockquote data-quote="weem" data-source="post: 4636333" data-attributes="member: 9470">Here is where I am stuck (just gonna spew this out as I found a little bit of time real quick)...As mentioned a few times, there are 3 parts to your turn.1/ Start of Your Turn2/ Actions on Your Turn3/ End of Your TurnWe'll call these Acts 1, 2 and 3.Your progress from Act 1 to Act 2 and finally to Act 3 during your turn.There is no backwards movement, and in fact you can do "no actions" in Act 1 or Act 3.Daze "occurs" at the Start of Your Turn, Act 1.To me, "occurs" means it happens then. It is not occuring during Act 2, it already happened in Act 1. Like ongoing damage and regeneration, they are applied AND resolved in Act 1 - they begin and end their turn in other words.When Daze is applied (Act 1), its effect is prevention of more than one action during Act 2. Like ongoing damage that has been taken, this is an effect that has happened already - it is not reversable.Shake it Off allows the warlord or others to roll a save with a bonus.--- For the Warlord, it occurs in Act 2.--- For Others, it occurs  in Act 0 (zero) before Act 1 of their next turn. Before the Daze would, in effect, get its chance to "occur". Other players are not moving backwards to stop an effect, but rather the warlord is preventing it from even getting to occur at all by killing it in Act 0.When the warlord saves in Act 2 thanks to an ability, it does not (to me) mean you get to go undo an action that occured during Act 1 (again, could he not then go back and undo ongoing damage? take back what was taken from him already?). Rather, it means that you are getting to roll a save in round 2 in addition to round 3 - so 2 saves, which is great and one of them is with a bonus! even better. But you benefit from saves on your next turn, not the current one.Everything in the book says (multiple times in fact) that saves occur at the end of the turn. Even if we assume (and we are) that this save for the warlord occurs during his actions turn (Act 2), nothing anywhere contradicts that the BENEFITS of a save (reasing conditions) occur on your NEXT turn (when you are suddenly free of a condition(S)).To word it another way... the book says saves happen at the end of your turn... this equates to saying that the save you make in Act 3 (turn 1) doesn't do anything until Act 1 (turn 2) when it efectively 'destroys' the effect you were saving against. We invision it immediately removing the effect, but logically that would require moving backwards to Act 1... instead, it waits till Act 1 of the next turn and removes it.With that said, I just don't see why in this case it moves back and stops what has already occured.Anyway, it's not pretty and I don't expect to change any minds (not trying to) - that's just where I am coming from at the moment, which could change. I'm not claiming to be right, or that you are wrong - I enjoy the discussion and it's all positive right <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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